Anyone starting to lose faith in Gus

as the man to take us to the next level.

Let me make it clear that I'm not suggesting that we get shot but the way we can't go out and make our superiority count is now worrying me.

I am starting to think that maybe Gus can't cope with the pressure at this level. As I've said elsewhere on here, we seem to be able to cope really well when there is no pressure, i,e in early season games and in cup games against Premier League teams. There seems to be too much tinkering and an inabilty to impose ourselves on games because we seldom really go fot it from the off. We play some very good football but every game is starting to feel like a chess game where our slow build up and pretty football in parts of the pitch where we can't do any damage seems to let the opposition grow in confidence. The number of times we are hit on the break having had most of the possession is really staring to piss me off.

This is not a knee jerk reaction, although the games against Bristol and Barnsley have really pissed me off. We can't keep claiming bad luck and bad refs for our inabilty to kill games off early on. If we could take a quick one or two goal lead I'd understand us stroking the ball around and keeping it from the opposition without threatening. We have the players, we have the biggest home support in the league and a pretty good away following I think we should be doing better.

Flame away, maybe I am expecting too much too quickly. I accept that

icy gull said:

as the man to take us to the next level.

Let me make it clear that i'm not suggesting that we get shot but the way we can't go out and make our superiority count is now worrying me.

I am starting to think that maybe gus can't cope with the pressure at this level. As i've said elsewhere on here, we seem to be able to cope really well when there is no pressure, i,e in early season games and in cup games against premier league teams. There seems to be too much tinkering and an inabilty to impose ourselves on games because we seldom really go fot it from the off. We play some very good football but every game is starting to feel like a chess game where our slow build up and pretty football in parts of the pitch where we can't do any damage seems to let the opposition grow in confidence. The number of times we are hit on the break having had most of the possession is really staring to piss me off.

This is not a knee jerk reaction, although the games against bristol and barnsley have really pissed me off. We can't keep claiming bad luck and bad refs for our inabilty to kill games off early on. If we could take a quick one or two goal lead i'd understand us stroking the ball around and keeping it from the opposition without threatening. We have the players, we have the biggest home support in the league and a pretty good away following i think we should be doing better.

Flame away, maybe i am expecting too much too quickly. I accept that

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never liked the bloke much tbh but he has done ok,but 8 million a year we need better

I think he can cope with the pressure, our main issue is that we set up way to defensively in games in my opinion. We have some great attacking players yet we play 2 holding midfielders which means strikers get much less service. This is why we rarely score more than one goal unless teams leave themselves exposed at the back and also why if the opposition score first we find it so hard to get back into games because teams sit back and we can't break them down.

Clearly they are because of the numerous other threads on this very subject. Ah well, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. Or should that be merge 'em...

If anyone cannot take the pressure, it is the players. Gus does not miss penalties, give away penalties, miss sitters, get himself sent off for tripping the ref etc. Yes, he bought them and coaches them, but at the end of the day, they are the ones who have to perform on the pitch.

And you know full well there are a few vociferous people on here that do not think he is up to the job. What matters is whether TB thinks he is.

The best thing that the supporters can do is get wholeheartedly behind the team on Sunday.

I am getting totally fed up with the way we are playing,. I have travelled 1800 miles and taken 2 days off work in a week to watch that shambles. Whilst we missed a penalty that happens and people saying we shouldn't have taken Lopez off were watching a different game to me, if they were there at all. The 2 things that pi**ed me off last night were our inability to string 2 decent passes together, Bridcutt was the main culprit, and the increasing regularity with which we fall to the floor when we feel an opponent's breath behind us. This costs us possession and it is now working against us as I believe referees are aware of this and we are not getting decisions that we should be getting because they cannot be sure that we have not thrown ourselves to the ground. Barnes' sending off on Saturday was an example as he was fouled in the penalty area but again made a meal of it and threw himself to the floor clutching his face, we did not get the decision and he then chased the referee before attempting to trip him. Gus needs to get the players back to passing the ball and using their undoubted ability without throwing themselves to the floor.

Started to have doubts half way through this season, it's like our last two seasons have been mirror images of each other consisting of four parts.

Part 1: promising start where we briefly sit atop the table.
Part 2: the bit before Christmas where we fail to win a game for 15 matches.
Part 2: the bit in the new year where we put ourseleves back in contention.
Part 3: the season end where we don't win a game for 8 matches.

Now part of that is probably caused by not having the biggest squad and that's partly down to money, the fact we still have some L1 players eating up wages and also poor squad management. But also it indicates Poyet just isn't able to turn a bad run of form around quickly and lets the team get in a rut whilst he uses any excuse under the sun. I also don't like his attitude but that's something a lot of people shove under the rug, his excuses for Suarez and walking off the sideline with 5 minutes of the match to go still stick with me they're both very ugly bits of behaviour. The way he sets up the team, everything is so tepid and touchy feely, when did we last go for the jugular? I'd love to see this team play attacking football like a Holloway team. We just don't seem to have any backbone at all, we're like the creme brûlée without the caramel top.

When (if) we ever get promoted to the premier league I'm positive Poyet won't be manager.

Did this really need another thread?

I lost mine when we humiliated at The Amex last season against Palace. Tactical ineptitude and crap results against poor opposition hasn't exactly restored it.

bakero said:

did this really need another thread?

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this!!!!!

Greg Bobkin said:

Clearly they are because of the numerous other threads on this very subject. Ah well, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. Or should that be merge 'em...

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Exactly, why bother typing all that when you can open virtually any thread to gauge people's feelings?

Some are losing faith, I wonder if we can guess who they are?

I am Gus's biggest fan and biggest defender.

The problem, as I see it, is that the team cannot seem to get themselves "up for" games against smaller sides. Maybe it's because we have very technical players and they want time on the ball, I don't know. But when we play big sides and decent grounds we look immense. When we play smaller sides at smaller grounds we seem mediocre and weak.

I might be wrong but it seems to me to be psychological thing. In the position we are in, being a decent rated side, if we play a small team we have a lot to lose and in terms of our reputation, little to gain. We get nervous about that I think. Against a big team we have nothing to lose and in terms of our reputation, lots to gain.

Maybe it's pressure, and maybe we all have a part to play to take the pressure off a bit, but ultimately it's Gus's job to get the players heads right. I think that is where our challenge lies rather than our tactics, which I actually think are, on the whole, pretty impressive.

Icy Gull said:

as the man to take us to the next level.

Let me make it clear that I'm not suggesting that we get shot but the way we can't go out and make our superiority count is now worrying me.

I am starting to think that maybe Gus can't cope with the pressure at this level. As I've said elsewhere on here, we seem to be able to cope really well when there is no pressure, i,e in early season games and in cup games against Premier League teams. There seems to be too much tinkering and an inabilty to impose ourselves on games because we seldom really go fot it from the off. We play some very good football but every game is starting to feel like a chess game where our slow build up and pretty football in parts of the pitch where we can't do any damage seems to let the opposition grow in confidence. The number of times we are hit on the break having had most of the possession is really staring to piss me off.

This is not a knee jerk reaction, although the games against Bristol and Barnsley have really pissed me off. We can't keep claiming bad luck and bad refs for our inabilty to kill games off early on. If we could take a quick one or two goal lead I'd understand us stroking the ball around and keeping it from the opposition without threatening. We have the players, we have the biggest home support in the league and a pretty good away following I think we should be doing better.

Flame away, maybe I am expecting too much too quickly. I accept that

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Thought u typed all this on various threads last night...bit of oh look at me by starting yet another thread

LamieRobertson said:

Thought u typed all this on various threads last night...bit of oh look at me by starting yet another thread

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If you like, it was intended more as a morning after thread to gauge opinions after a night to sleep on it when feelings weren't running so high.

Check the poll out - there's your answer.

Not at all. We've improved every year under him since he took control. That would be considered "on the up".

Bakero said:

Did this really need another thread?

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Yes, it is getting rather tedious. Considering hat this is Gus' first managerial role - and he is still learning his trade - I think he has done well. And long may he continue to do so.

Icy Gull said:

If you like, it was intended more as a morning after thread to gauge opinions after a night to sleep on it when feelings weren't running so high.

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lol....if u say so..migth be a few days until a few opinions change..and then there will be the posters that are fairly entrenched in there views

Why would you accuse Gus of not being up to the pressure ?
Would you have any serious arguments with his team selection for matches?
It seems to be the players who can't stand the pressure. Gus can't legislate for missed penalties.
I realise this defence applies mainly to the Barnsley game, but seeing as this whole thread was started after a jerk of the knee it seemed appropriate.

There seem to be three very different views of Gus.
1) The outsiders/neutrals looking in from afar. If I had a pound for every person who has said to me..." You've got a really good manager there "....." Poyet's done/doing a really good job at your place "..." wish we had Gus Poyet as manager "..." he's destined for a big job "......I would be a lot better off than I am today!
2) BHA fans group A......Gus is the best thing that has ever happened to us...we are heading in the right direction...whatever happens, we won't lose the faith.
3) BHA fans group B.....Subdivided into 1) Lost faith completely and want out 2) Losing faith, want to stay loyal but worried at course of events and looking for answers 3) Puzzled, angered, bemused, frustrated, heads hurting, all over the place mixed up and not knowing which way to turn. Loving Gus one minute, wanting him out the next.
From the outside he is charismatic, charming, attractive, positive and relatively youthful. All the attributes of a really good salesman. Men and women both like him. The media love him. He makes good copy.
Beneath all this, how much real substance is there? We are told that his preparation for each match leaves no stone unturned but isn't this the basic prerequisite for every football manager?
He appears positive in character but is actually cautious by nature. And hereby lies the dichotomy of the man. He is not what he appears to the outside. His game plan is consistent,with possession,building from the back but he constantly tinkers with team line-up. One the one hand, a settled plan, on the other, undecided as to his best formations.
We are told that he picks a team to play the specific opposition but if we have a settled and fairly successful game plan, why is he worrying about the opposition every game. Let them worry about us. ( It smacks of Don Revie's extensive dossiers on every team Leeds played..whilst Shankley and Paisley sipped tea in the boot-room at Anfield and told their players to pass to the same colour shirt )
Set pieces, including penalties. Key area in football. Often the difference between winning and losing. We have employed umpteen different corner kick/free kick/penalty takers. No consistency, no stragegy. Just what seems to suit the moment.
So are we dealing with a manager who is actually quite shallow, tactically. Has he built all his plans around one particular style of play to the exclusion of everything else? Cautious and inflexible and incapable of moving to another level. Relying on talented players who in turn are being strangled by an inability to be flexible.
Surely a manager has a say in when games are rearranged? It was obvious to all concerned that three home games in six days last season was courting disaster. Sure enough, we paid the price big time. Twice in less than 8 weeks we have been forced to play 3 successive away league games ( 3 points out of 18 )..Madness, bloody madness. I know its not all down to Gus but surely he has a say in these things. The players need more protection. Three away games in 7 days is ludicrous and has probably cost us the play-offs. Thats how important these issues are.
He is too quick to court the media over issues outside BHA ( e.g Saurez and Chelsea ) Full concentration is needed on the job at hand.
In summary, I feel that Gus developed a game plan ideal for lower levels. But as you move to Championship and Premiership you have to be cuter, more flexible. We are either outthought or bullied too many times at this level. We have a strong squad but an unbalanced squad. We have lacked firepower for two seasons and its still not been resolved. At this stage I can't see him making it as a top manager. Compare him with Laudrup and you suddenly see the difference.
Gus has done a good job getting us to where we are. I am not convinced he can take us any further. The best managers are the bravest managers. Gus is too cautious to take that next step.