What is it with this club and strikers?

jimhigham · Mar 10, 2013

As I was driving into work I was listening to a preview of the Milwall match on the radio. Chris Wood's name was mentioned and it got me to thinking about our striking "problem".

Wood looked busy and useful enough during his time with us but I don't recall it being a goalfest. Fast forward 18 months and it seems he only has to pull on a shirt to start bagging goals.

Then there is the obvious Murray phenomenon. Obviously he was our top scorer but he didn't ever look as though he had 30 goals a season in him, even when we were winning the League One title.

The reverse can be said of CMS. He made free and easy eith the goals while playing for a team duking it out in the lower reaches of the Championshiop. Since then he has been brought to what most people would view as a better club and the amount of chances we have had in the last season suggest that he hasn't been wanting for service and yet he struggles to come by goals.

Three examples of players that are either on or have been on the club's books and have had conspiscuously better end product elsewhere. All of which begs the simple question "why?"

I'm not fishing or trolling or whatever. I am genuinely intrigued at the three examples above. Is there something in the way we coach strikers? Is it more about our method of play and the type of chances being created?

Thoughts please.

seagullsovergrimsby · Mar 10, 2013

If Wood was two years older than we had him on loan we would have seen him scoring for fun , he was still gaining experience here and at other other clubs before he joined us. Murray is a confidence player , last season he wasn't given any supply , this season he has and look what's happened. CMS didn't score a bundle of goals in The Championship with Peterborough but absolutely bossed it in League One the following season. CMS is a bit like Murray , he needs to score on a regular basis to keep up the motivation.

jimhigham · Mar 10, 2013

Possibly all valid points but I can't see that being the whole story. Otherwise we are simply explaining away our lack of goals as "unlucky". This has been a clearly identifiable problem for two seasons now. Is that all down to a lack of confidence?

Mind you, in keeping with your point, I wonder in the sense of taking a striker off the back of a hat-trick and presumably bursting with confidence and bumping him to the bench next match. Odd.

pork pie · Mar 10, 2013

seagullsovergrimsby said:
If Wood was two years older than we had him on loan we would have seen him scoring for fun , he was still gaining experience here and at other other clubs before he joined us. Murray is a confidence player , last season he wasn't given any supply , this season he has and look what's happened. CMS didn't score a bundle of goals in The Championship with Peterborough but absolutely bossed it in League One the following season. CMS is a bit like Murray , he needs to score on a regular basis to keep up the motivation.

But without any ability? He will never be like Glen Murray as a goal scorer. He simply has no idea of positioning, has the first touch of a rapist, and lacks composure.

The real problem with his injury is it will stop us moving him on in the summer.

seagullsovergrimsby · Mar 10, 2013

jimhigham said:
Possibly all valid points but I can't see that being the whole story. Otherwise we are simply explaining away our lack of goals as "unlucky". This has been a clearly identifiable problem for two seasons now. Is that all down to a lack of confidence?

Mind you, in keeping with your point, I wonder in the sense of taking a striker off the back of a hat-trick and presumably bursting with confidence and bumping him to the bench next match. Odd.

Spanish Len was knackered after the Huddersfield match and I think at Bristol he was told CMS had fresher legs and would start but he would still get some game-time. He still played 45 minutes , O'Driscoll said prior to the game that Spanish Len was our key player and the defence had been working on marking him out of the game.

Kazenga <3 · Mar 10, 2013

pork pie said:
But without any ability? He will never be like Glen Murray as a goal scorer. He simply has no idea of positioning, has the first touch of a rapist, and lacks composure.

The real problem with his injury is it will stop us moving him on in the summer.

Never understood why a rapist would have a bad first touch? Surely some rapists may be quite subtle? You may not even know its happened

One Love · Mar 10, 2013

For me, someone (who should be hung, dried and quartered

) thought CMS was far better than he is and they must have been someone of high influence within the club because from that moment on we put all our eggs in the CMS basket, ignoring the ability of Murray and the potential of Woods.

One Love · Mar 10, 2013

jimhigham said:
Possibly all valid points but I can't see that being the whole story. Otherwise we are simply explaining away our lack of goals as "unlucky". This has been a clearly identifiable problem for two seasons now. Is that all down to a lack of confidence?

Apart from Ulloa who we hope as different no-one is a natural goal-scorer. In fact quite the opposite, they all find it really difficult to find the net.

Look at Phillips for example, he puts the ball in the back of the net by accident.

Should be a priority next year to find some players with proven goal-scoring history.

seagullsovergrimsby · Mar 10, 2013

pork pie said:
But without any ability? He will never be like Glen Murray as a goal scorer. He simply has no idea of positioning, has the first touch of a rapist, and lacks composure.

The real problem with his injury is it will stop us moving him on in the summer.

In League 1 during the 2010/2011 season Murray scored 22 goals , CMS scored 35 goals. When we absolutely smashed Peterborough 3-0 at London Road he was their best player on the pitch and put Murray to shame in comparison.

pork pie · Mar 10, 2013

seagullsovergrimsby said:
In League 1 during the 2010/2011 season Murray scored 22 goals , CMS scored 35 goals. When we absolutely smashed Peterborough 3-0 at London Road he was their best player on the pitch and put Murray to shame in comparison.

Sorry, but I was at that match.

All CMS did was run about and be a pain in the arse. He never, ever looked like he would or could score. Just like he plays for us.

The guy has had two chances at this level now, and proved that he is nothing better than a lower league striker. Murray on the other hand... ... ...

RexCathedra · Mar 10, 2013

It's not just this club.
Show me a team that doesn't have striker problems, that wouldn't give their eyeteeth for another 20-30 goals a year striker.

How much of the long-running Liverpool soap opera is striker-related?

seagullsovergrimsby · Mar 10, 2013

pork pie said:
Sorry, but I was at that match.

All CMS did was run about and be a pain in the arse. He never, ever looked like he would or could score. Just like he plays for us.

The guy has had two chances at this level now, and proved that he is nothing better than a lower league striker. Murray on the other hand... ... ...

Bullshit , I was at the game too , even though we were annihilating them in their "Cup Final" he still put in a better performance than Murray who was subbed after getting a yellow card to prevent him getting a second one.

pork pie · Mar 10, 2013

seagullsovergrimsby said:
Bullshit , I was at the game too , even though we were annihilating them in their "Cup Final" he still put in a better performance than Murray who was subbed after getting a yellow card to prevent him getting a second one.

Obviously, it is a case of opinions. BUT, surely you can see that was how he plays every week? He just runs about, but cannot score.

seagullsovergrimsby · Mar 10, 2013

pork pie said:
Obviously, it is a case of opinions. BUT, surely you can see that was how he plays every week? He just runs about, but cannot score.

That season however whenever Peterborough where shown in a live game on Sky he always put on a show and scored. 9 out of 10 managers given a choice between signing CMS and Murray at the time would have opted for CMS having scored over 50% more goals than Murray.

El Turi · Mar 10, 2013

It's because of the way we play. Gus has only played two wingers about twice since we got promoted to the Championship meaning teams can double up on whatever winger is playing (usually Buckley) and the service our strikers is limited. I don't think any striker would be prolific in our set-up.

GoldWithFalmer · Mar 10, 2013

pork pie said:
Obviously, it is a case of opinions. BUT, surely you can see that was how he plays every week? He just runs about, but cannot score.

So many factors come in to play as to whether a player/striker will settle and do the business,the list is quite exhaustive,however...

We as a club can spot them,within the the budget we have,we have signed good players some bad,but the good ones,they have gone on to do well,often at other clubs,within (pre Gus era) too.

In the main the OP is citing the Gus era,and despite what some people think of our "style",it is the way forward,yet some players are signed,they are promised a team that can built around them (CMS) and yet the side has not been built around to play to the players strengths,despite the promise.

As a result,players do not play their *Natural* game and are forced to adapt to the managers way of thinking.

This can work the a high level,(not the highest imo) as top world class players need no such instruction,or require such dictation.

The final outcome is a player that should do well,often does not,leaves and becomes a success elsewhere,more often due to the freedom allowed to express,yet i draw you back to the first paragraph (so many factors).

Brighton can and always will *attract* the best,within budget,it's a location thing (just ask Sussex based Palace fans) yet this has down sides too,namely (Liam Dickenson?) signed but outed,pre Gus era,good record at the lower level,yet his liking for the *goodlife* was obvious from day one,i knew he would not succeed here,not doing too bad at Southend this year.

Glen Murray-how many goals did he score for Brighton in a season? at best 20,in a division bellow this,how many times did he play for Palace at the end of his first season? perhaps 6 in the 2nd half that year,now he's on 30 goals.

Why? he always had talent,we paid £300 odd thousand for him,he had ability,he left,he always wanted to leave,2 transfer requests?? and a general disinterest,but he has had to raise his game to stay at Palace,despite what we think of them,they are established at this level and know what is required.

Coaching? well it can be said we got rid of our stale non league coaches after Gus took charge,we have an ex defender as assistant,central midfielder as coach,and attacking midfielder as manager,so who knows what they think.

Ulloa? he will be a great player,no money wasted here,if he and most importantly his family settle,he will be the business,he could be like Murray was in his first season at Palace,then boom.

Barnes?total value for money,still good enough at quad level,but for us to progress,we need better,timing of events has ment he is nearly past his best for us at this level.

Hoskins-great player,injury prone? do we need new medics,how many times or are we/the player unlucky?

CMS? superb player,in the right team and system,perhaps he regrets his move,yet his record at this level suggests why,despite being touted for,he never was signed for the premier league,we will perhaps (yet i am a fan) never get the best out of him here.

In short,Gus has one fit and one not so fit decent forwards in Hoskins & Ulloa.

We shall see if Tony Bloom is willing to back Gus and gamble and let's look forward,sometimes it takes events like this to get players in,that you never thought you would,and suddenly it clicks.

amexee · Mar 10, 2013

Murray, Like the rest of Palace was going nowhere at the beginning of this season. Sheer desperation by freedman got palace smacking everything they could into the box and Murray and hence palace thrived.

Possible if gus played 2 wingers for a few weeks and said aim at Ulloa etc then BHA would thrive in this league, no fecking hope in the premier league though.

GoldWithFalmer · Mar 10, 2013

amexee said:
Murray, Like the rest of Palace was going nowhere at the beginning of this season. Sheer desperation by freedman got palace smacking everything they could into the box and Murray and hence palace thrived.

Possible if gus played 2 wingers for a few weeks and said aim at Ulloa etc then BHA would thrive in this league, no fecking hope in the premier league though.

We had wingers and let them go,but Buckley Noone and Lua Lua no matter how good Gus rated them was enough,we needed a 4th,now we have Buckley,who is injury prone (back to the medics again-see above post) and Lua Lua,who showed so much,and is never given the chance(his confidence must be shot to bits) we have Spanish dave and orlandi,superb players,but not natural out and out wingers

HastingsSeagull · Mar 10, 2013

Our 4-2-3-1 relies on a striker who helps the other 3 attacking players score goals. We're not set up to be a Burnley with one up top who scores all the goals but want Ulloa to be a 20 goal a season striker AND also a target man / back to goal player who works with the 3 not solely feeding off them.

brightonrock · Mar 10, 2013

Our biggest problem is finishing throughout the squad, not *just* the strikers. Orlandi has missed a couple of absolute sitters this season, and I remember Crofts blazing one over from about 10 yards that had been cut back on a plate for him from the byline, as well as Ulloa scooping it over from a yard out, Hammond missing two free headers from inside the six yard box v Blackburn, and Barnes/CMS missing other chances. Generally speaking (Brizzle away aside for example) we create plenty, but we're not clinical enough throughout the team, and although people love a scapegoat and having the chance to point a finger - I think if we don't make the play-offs it'll be as a result of a general lack of ruthlessness in front of goal rather than this player or that being wasteful. When Murray or Wood were with us they didn't seem like strikers who would score as prolifically as they are now - Wood in particular, whose improvement has been very impressive since his loan spell.

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