Was the war justified ?

Uncle Spielberg · Jul 8, 2003

1. Yes
2. No

After all is said and done was the war in Iraq. The achieved the overthrowing of Hussain and the liberation of the people of Iraq. It appears the WOMD have done a runner. I have a strong opinion but 3 months after was it worth it ?

Turkey · Jul 8, 2003

Justified.. I don't think the reason were. Where are the weapons? I do however think it was worth it. I think it'll be a better country for it.

REDLAND · Jul 8, 2003

Turkey said:
Justified.. I don't think the reason were. Where are the weapons? I do however think it was worth it. I think it'll be a better country for it.

Joke right ??

Wilts · Jul 8, 2003

Couldn't give an arsé. I'll ask my Dad when he's back.

Then start thinking about whether it was right or not. Sorry to be a tad selfish.

I don't think we know the answer yet, and we'll only know when either:

a) Iraq becomes a civilised country full of happy citizens

or

b) Iraq turns back into a complete f***ing mess.

Neither scenario exists at the moment, so there isn't an answer.

Uncle Spielberg · Jul 8, 2003

I think the war was justified. They have overthrown an evil dictator. It was and never was about oil. I do wish they would find the WOMD as this give the anti war camp a huge stick to beat them with. I think it is fair to say that if 11/9/2001 did not happen this war would not have happened. I am a believer in " you reap what you sow " and the backlash from the USA after 11/9/01 was inevitable and Hussain and his support of terrorism was going to have his backside whipped. The people celebrating in the streets in the middle east was always going to have a payback.

It may look like finsihing the business that daddy started with Bush but overall in hindsight I believe the war was justified.

REDLAND · Jul 8, 2003

WiltsRoyal said:
b) Iraq turns back into a complete f***ing mess.

Read the news dude, its already happened !!

Wilts · Jul 8, 2003

redland said:
Read the news dude, its already happened !!

If you think "news" is what is going on in Iraq, you are very wrong.

Tooting Gull · Jul 8, 2003

Gareth, you say "reap what you sow", but there is absolutely no evidence (and be sure we would have seen it) that Hussein had anything to do with 9/11. There may have been some Al Queda operatives in Iraq, but nowhere near as many as there are in the UK, and no-one's invading us for sponsoring terrorism.

The justification for the war was supposedly the WOMD, not 9/11. And we haven't found any. Until they turn up, there seems no more reason to have invaded Iraq then any other unpleasant regime, and there are shitloads as we know.

Turkey · Jul 8, 2003

WiltsRoyal said:
If you think "news" is what is going on in Iraq, you are very wrong.

REDLAND · Jul 8, 2003

WiltsRoyal said:
If you think "news" is what is going on in Iraq, you are very wrong.

Don't get me wrong, my job enables me to know what goes on, and as you say its not news !!!

CHAPPERS · Jul 8, 2003

I think the war was right but it wasn't 'justified' as this suggests it achieved what it went out to do which was to rid Iraq of WOMD, not merely overthrow Saddam even though this was part of the plan. I think its for the better Iraq was a great nation before that murderous prick got hold of it and hopefully the Americans and British can do what they said they would and leave a stable country that can thrive both culturally and economically behind them

Wilts · Jul 8, 2003

Does anyone have any idea how long it takes Saddam to move any WOMD he might have out of Iraq to another country? The Army reckons that from Baghdad it'll take around 4 hours. Now, if he did this (very likely) when he knew he was going to be invaded, then we'll never find them... but is that the issue any more?

Hussein is not linked to 9/11. At all. He has condoned the actions, but then so did Sudan and half of Nigeria.

I think the mass graves and food deprivation tactics used to punish those who spoke out against Saddam are damn good examples of exactly why the war looks like it is justified so far.

If peace ensues (and the multinational forces are out sorting out operations already), then the removal of Saddam will be a success. If it develops into anarchy, which is not the situation in Basra and the South East, only in some of the minor areas around Baghdad, and within about half of Baghdad itself, then there's a problem. Democracy will never be achieved in an Islamic state, but a "dictator" along the lines of Sultan Qaboos in Oman is the solution. Not a power-monger, just someone willing to look after all the people in the country. Start off with local governments, and then build a central office to represent all the local governments. Watch this space.... for the next 10 months or so.

The sadder thing is that severe action wasn't taken earlier when Saddam kicked the inspectors out in the mid 1990s.

Wilts · Jul 8, 2003

redland said:
Don't get me wrong, my job enables me to know what goes on, and as you say its not news !!!

My job as a son of an squaddie out in Basra helps me a lot too!

Lord Bracknell · Jul 8, 2003

Gareth Glover said:
They have overthrown an evil dictator.

Really? His presence "somewhere" still seems to be determining daily events in the country.

It never was about oil.

Really? How much US effort is being put into ensuring that the Iraqi oilfields won't be under the control of OPEC? Reducing the influence of OPEC is a major US policy objective.

I do wish they would find the WOMD as this give the anti war camp a huge stick to beat them with.

Dream on!

I think it is fair to say that if 11/9/2001 did not happen this war would not have happened. I am a believer in " you reap what you sow " and the backlash from the USA after 11/9/01 was inevitable and Hussain and his support of terrorism was going to have his backside whipped.

Exactly what support did Saddam Hussein ever give to Osama Bin Laden and his Islamic fundamentalists? After the war, it now looks MORE likely that fundamentalism will get a foothold in Iraq. Particularly if the US hasn't got the bottle to become a colonial administrator.

The people celebrating in the streets in the middle east was always going to have a payback.

Such is the stupidity of the US government. They target ordinary people in the streets, because they didn't like what they saw on television.

It may look like finsihing the business that daddy started with Bush

The powers behind the US presidency are far more extensive than the grand daddy of one particular family.

in hindsight I believe the war was justified.

I'll reserve my own judgement until it looks like the "war" is over. That could be some time.

Wilts · Jul 8, 2003

Lord Bracknell said:
Really? How much US effort is being put into ensuring that the Iraqi oilfields won't be under the control of OPEC? Reducing the influence of OPEC is a major US policy objective.

Absolutely, good argument there LB. But the war isn't "about oil". Oil is a fundamental characteristic that needs to be preserved as Iraq has so much of it and is very influential. As oil is valuable to so many countries in the world, it makes a hell of a lot of sense, but it isn't "about oil".

Similarly, the preservation of key religious sites and the Babylon region needs to happen, as they are valuable to so many people across the world.

Reducing the influence of OPEC was not the reason, or even one of the reasons, why Iraq was invaded. In military strategy it was not considered. And I can be 100% certain of that. Consider this though, you notice that many of the countries who didn't back the coalition invasion now want a hand (and a share) in the oil reserves? Talk about immoral "motives" by these nations.

Like them all basically saying "aw, its really tragic, but now its happened can we have some of the leftovers".

CHAPPERS · Jul 8, 2003

I think OPEC should f*** off anyway.

Pavilionaire · Jul 8, 2003

It would appear that the war was justified, as the Iraqi people are free, the oppressive and threatening regime of Hussain has been removed and the US / UK have shown that they will employ force if diplomacy breaks down, sending a signal out to the rest of the nutters out there.

The downside is that we persistently fail to take out Hussain. Until he is dead the spectre of his regime resurfacing in some other guise is quite possible, and I think it likely more US / UK personnel will die from sniper fire and guerrilla offensives than died in the war proper.

The tragedy is that the US / UK have just done the job of the UN and nobody is thanking Blair and Bush for sorting out the situation. If the UN was properly organised we would not be having this debate.

I don't see anything wrong in going in and removing a dictator like Hussain per se, but you could argue we should be doing the same in China, Nigeria etc as a precedent will have been set.

Uncle Spielberg · Jul 8, 2003

Lord, I respect your point of view but we will have to agree to disagree.

There is no evidence to link Hussain and Iraq to Al Quaeda but then there is absolutely no evidence not to link them. Its all ifs and buts. But the common goal of Hussian, Bin Laden and all these self elected murderous , mentally unstable characters is there hate of the USA and indeed the West in general.

Hussain would drop a nuclear bomb on the city of New York tomorrow if he had the chance.

Gritt23 · Jul 8, 2003

No, it was not justified, and clearly the evidence was indeed sexed-up to attempt to justify it.

There were no weapons, chemical or otherwise. He wasn't about to murder his own people as soon as we got near Baghdad, it wasn't to fight the "War on Terror".

We were indeed lied to throughout, and I for one think that is just not good enough from our Prime Minister.

Tories were thrown out due to all the lies and sleeze, and Tony will surely follow.

Wilts · Jul 8, 2003

Gritt23 said:
No, it was not justified, and clearly the evidence was indeed sexed-up to attempt to justify it.

There were no weapons, chemical or otherwise. He wasn't about to murder his own people as soon as we got near Baghdad, it wasn't to fight the "War on Terror".

We were indeed lied to throughout, and I for one think that is just not good enough from our Prime Minister.

Tories were thrown out due to all the lies and sleeze, and Tony will surely follow.

Evidence, please!!!

I don't recall this ever being a war on terror. The "sex-ing" up was not done by our military intelligence, I can assure you. Evidence to justify the invasion is well known unto the Intelligence, but sadly isn't disseminated among the UK public. The only things the public get to be able to make their own opinion is the news, which is why many feel as you do. The blame isn't those you blame, it is the media and the government in its choice of information dissemination.

And what is

wasn't about to murder his own people as soon as we got near Baghdad

...he did a pretty f***ing good job of doing that for the last 30 years! We knew he wouldn't kill them all when we got close, hence we went in! We wouldn't do it otherwise!!

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