They make a mockery of any attendance records or discussion of clubs' attendances by announcing every game at the Emirates as a virtual full-house. T.v. clearly showed thousands of empty seats at Arsenal yesterday, and not just in the Blackburn section, yet they still announced a crowd of nearly 60,000. Ridiculous.
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Arsenal attendances
- Thread starter krakatoa
- Start date
GingerBeerMan
3-0
- Dec 29, 2011
- 8,022
All the big clubs go on tickets sold, not people who actually went. Don't just blame Arsenal a lot of other clubs do it too (united for example).
severnside gull
Well-known member
I think they count all tickets sold regardless of whether someone actually turns up and sits in the seat. In fairness, although the convention is to only declare the people who came through the turnstiles on the day, they have a very valid point because you pay tax on the total revenue from sales and not just on those who turn up. If anything you would have to say that they have got it right and us who have it wrong. I bet we sold around 22,300 (there were 300+ Leicester fans with tickets who didn't make it through the turnstiles for whatever reason plus our absentee STH's) yesterday and that is what we will be taxed on not the 21,200 who actually attended.
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But that's not attendance is it? Attending is going to the match.
severnside gull
Well-known member
No, it is tickets sold which is the bit that HMRC are interested in and, in truth, the bit fans probably want to know about too as bigger ticket sales = bragging rights
How often have we heard fans say this season that the ticket office had sold out signs up but there were empty seats on the day? (remembering it's not actually the club's job to sell tickets twice as they only get one lot of revenue). Declaring tickets sold is actually the more honest approach in many ways.
Although I agree, I imagine it would be extremely difficult to count actual fans. Of course, Arsenal really can't claim to have a dedicated fan base seeing their ease at abandoning their club when things don't go their way.
I found it very funny that their stay away protest happened when they won 7-1!!
Sent by the power of Gus' tactical genius
Someone pointed this out in regard to the attendance at Palace, and apparently it's a PL regulation. The Football League have no requirements at all on which figure is reported, tickets sold or numbers through gate, but the Premier League say that clubs have to report tickets sold as the attendance figure.
It's a bloody stupid rule, they should obviously record both but attendance is those through the gate (and since all stadiums are required to track that with counters on turnstiles it makes no sense that they don't).
It's a bloody stupid rule, they should obviously record both but attendance is those through the gate (and since all stadiums are required to track that with counters on turnstiles it makes no sense that they don't).
But Notters is right, as fans we're interested in the attendance, as in the number of people who could be arsed to actually attend the event. HMRC are interested in the number of tickets sold and I'm sure both sets of figures are available. Maybe if clubs are going to show ticket sales rather than turnstile appearances they should start publishing no-shows as well as 'attendance'?No, it is tickets sold which is the bit that HMRC are interested in and, in truth, the bit fans probably want to know about too as bigger ticket sales = bragging rights
How often have we heard fans say this season that the ticket office had sold out signs up but there were empty seats on the day? (remembering it's not actually the club's job to sell tickets twice as they only get one lot of revenue). Declaring tickets sold is actually the more honest approach in many ways.
Whatever, there should be an agreed format. At the moment because of the swathes of empty seats people laugh at Arsenal, whereas a less-fickle club may indeed use the same method but it isn't so obvious.
disgruntled h blocker
Active member
It seems people here seem to be in a bygone era with pay-on-the-gate and money going out in brown envelopes. For most modern clubs today mostly all ticket sales go through the banking system so it's more or less impossible to hide away from the HMRC.
But obviously you could cheat the HMRC in terms of cash sales at the food kiosks - which reminded me of yesterday when a young male cashier forgot to put my food through the till, only when I asked for the change he got a bit embarrassed!
But obviously you could cheat the HMRC in terms of cash sales at the food kiosks - which reminded me of yesterday when a young male cashier forgot to put my food through the till, only when I asked for the change he got a bit embarrassed!
Billy the Fish
Technocrat
No, it is tickets sold which is the bit that HMRC are interested in and, in truth, the bit fans probably want to know about too as bigger ticket sales = bragging rights
How often have we heard fans say this season that the ticket office had sold out signs up but there were empty seats on the day? (remembering it's not actually the club's job to sell tickets twice as they only get one lot of revenue). Declaring tickets sold is actually the more honest approach in many ways.
It is possible to record two figures. Attendance is the amout of people who went. Tickets sold is the number of tickets sold. Exactly what it says on the tin, just be clear about what you're announcing.
Not sure what HMRC has to do with it, they're not sitting in every ground listening to the attendance being called out, all they care about is amount of revenue not tickets sold.
Billy the Fish
Technocrat
No it isn't, it's all done electronically. This is the 21 century, those scanners you swipe your ticket under are sending this info back to a server somewhere. It will give you an accurate figure at the click of a button
not another one 
Sooty the Thief
New member
- Oct 3, 2009
- 83
I have to admit that i had my suspicions that the club were on the fiddle sometimes during The Golstone days when you could hardly move in the north stand and they would announce the crown as about 4000 or something. Pay on the day then though so a lot easier!
lucky007
New member
I dont know if anyone else noticed yesterday but doing the maths when the attendance was announced resulted in exactly 18000 brighton fans at the game
Seriously? That's so pathetic, like the PL want to be able to advertise themselves as having large audiences, when it's fake.
The rule should be that all clubs have to publish the figures of the crowd that turned up.
Well, I think it should be that they should have to publish both figures but that it must be made clear which figure is being announced. Although I care more about attendance than tickets sold, at least if they announced the figure as tickets sold it would be clearer (and would probably put more pressure on clubs to announce the actual attendance).
Lord Bracknell
On fire
Why can't English Clubs be made to publish information in the form that Italian Clubs have to?
Siena-Napoli 1-1 | A.C. SIENA Sito Ufficiale
Spettatori: abbonati 7.623 per una quota di 68.781 euro, paganti 7020 per un incasso di 152.635 euro, totale spettatori 14.643 per un incasso totale 221.416 euro.
Spectators: 7,623 season ticket holders, paying €68,781; 7,020 paying €152,635 on the day; total 14,643, paying a total of €221,416.
The season ticket numbers seem to remain constant for each game, though. Siena-Lazio 4-0 | A.C. SIENA Sito Ufficiale
Siena-Napoli 1-1 | A.C. SIENA Sito Ufficiale
Spettatori: abbonati 7.623 per una quota di 68.781 euro, paganti 7020 per un incasso di 152.635 euro, totale spettatori 14.643 per un incasso totale 221.416 euro.
Spectators: 7,623 season ticket holders, paying €68,781; 7,020 paying €152,635 on the day; total 14,643, paying a total of €221,416.
The season ticket numbers seem to remain constant for each game, though. Siena-Lazio 4-0 | A.C. SIENA Sito Ufficiale
Ringmer Richie
New member
Personally, I would like to know both sets of figures.