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Defenders even score with their face.

We can't say for sure where the ball would have gone. Looks like it would have hit him, don't know where it would have deflected to. But you shouldn't have your hands there, which is why we often see defenders with their arms behind their backs. That's why I think it should be a penalty. But I...

And how cold it was! We all remember how much that stings. Murray was clearly feeling a bit pathetic, as just a few seconds before the shot he was doing the same thing, holding his arms in front of his face like the little kid at school.

Yep, fair point. Yep, but it's not 12 hours.

We're appealing because we don't think he played it to the letter, we think he got it wrong.

Why have we lodged the appeal already, surely we could have appealed a little later so that the hearing couldn't be done before the game?

I wasn't even talking about the handball, as you'll see if you read what I was replying too.

Nice. Hopefully he's not alone and we can appeal without risking the accusation that it's frivolous, and just appealing might make him available on Tuesday.

That's still a red if not in the box, but if in the box then the argument is you haven't stopped a goal scoring opportunity, because they get a penalty. I don't know the law on this one, I just know it can be different - the Leeds one for example didn't stop an opportunity to score, it actually...

They changed the rules about a foul in the box, which is the scenario I was replying to. They didn't change the rule for a handball that stops the ball crossing the line, like the Leeds game. Murray's was a bit different though, as I think it was going to hit his face, not go in the goal. The...

But the current (new) law means that's not a red if it's a penalty.

Indeed. It's being made out like his hands were by his side, and he raised them to stop the ball - that's not what happened. He already had his hand in front of him - the choice he was faced with was: a) get my hands out of the way and take it in the face b) not get smashed in the face With the...