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There's quite a lot of crossover. It's almost, and bear with me on this one, it's almost as if in some areas some people support one team but in the same area......some people support another. ****ing bonkers.

Palace fans come from places like Croydon, Molesey, Walton, Cobham, Sutton etc, all Surrey towns with above average income. But as you say, underclass in many respects.

I also disagree that it is largely working class people that cause the violence. In my experience and traditionally, the working class have great respect for each other, people who live and work in the area. It's middle class idiots that cause most of the trouble.

No, I got the nuance. And I got the source.

I disagree. While I think that football fans get unfairly labelled there clearly is such a thing as football violence and saying there isn't is as ridiculous as saying all fans are hooligans.

Unfortunately a series of bad landlords at my local have allowed the place to be overrun with chavvy, underage drinkers so, although formerly a good football pub it was mantal in there v Sweden and even worse after as they stopped cars in the streets, rocking them and shouting through the...