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  1. Creaky

    Is it "socially unjust" to charge young students for their university education?

    Why does everyone take it as Gospel that a degree will on average mean you will earn more - there is simply no evidence for such an assumption. I would lay odds that if a survey of those who were pupils back in the 60s was taken that those who passed the 11+ earn more on average than those who...
  2. Creaky

    Is it "socially unjust" to charge young students for their university education?

    So a treasury saving of £1,200 per student justifies landing that student with a bill for £30,000 - I guess that you'd have no objection to being charged say £30 for a library card so long as a saving of £1 was made. In any case the study I linked to earlier estimates that student fees need...
  3. Creaky

    Is it "socially unjust" to charge young students for their university education?

    What those statistics don't and can't show is that it is the university degree which is responsible for the higher earnings. It is just as likely, probably more so, that those attending university simply have a higher earning potential than those that don't. As many have pointed out a large...
  4. Creaky

    Is it "socially unjust" to charge young students for their university education?

    I don't dispute that the repayment liabilities are sustainable. I would however argue that central goverment funding of universities is little or no more expensive than funding via the student loan system and that the general tax payer therefore sees no benefit from the latter. The Institute...
  5. Creaky

    Is it "socially unjust" to charge young students for their university education?

    IF the current system cost less than the central government funding of universities did 40 years ago then arguments based on cost might be valid - however the current system of student loans costs the taxpayer far more than it used to!
  6. Creaky

    Is it "socially unjust" to charge young students for their university education?

    You may not need to take out a mortgage but an outstanding student loan could very well prevent you from getting one in the future!
  7. Creaky

    Is it "socially unjust" to charge young students for their university education?

    Why 16 and not 15 ??? In any case referring to your earlier post - You believe 16-18 year olds going to college should pay for their education - I wonder how much support you'd get for that argument. I have to agree though that those supporting university fees can't really argue against the...
  8. Creaky

    Is it "socially unjust" to charge young students for their university education?

    Semantics - who decides what is 'school education' and what is advanced? In my lifetime the school leaving age has risen from 15 to 18 - it could just as easily have risen to 21 which would make most university course just part of 'school education'.
  9. Creaky

    Is it "socially unjust" to charge young students for their university education?

    Are some young people just born as a plumber or an electrician? - Of course they aren't, most learn on the job or as apprentices, who pays for that training? That training isn't cost-free and those costs are paid by someone.
  10. Creaky

    Is it "socially unjust" to charge young students for their university education?

    That ignores the changes that have occurred in the way that universities are funded. When they received all their income from central government and commercial sponsorships they could afford to be selective in the students they chose for their courses despite them being free. A large...
  11. Creaky

    Is it "socially unjust" to charge young students for their university education?

    The obvious corollary to that argument is that those doing A levels or other further education courses should also have a fee attached to them. The school leaving age has now effectively been raised to 18 - the argument put forward by the government for doing so is because research shows that...
  12. Creaky

    Is it "socially unjust" to charge young students for their university education?

    I'm not arguing that ALL courses should be subsidised, quite the opposite. On the other hand do you not believe that there are courses which are necessary for students to carry out their chosen profession and which are also necessary for the well being of the nation. We need doctors, nurses...
  13. Creaky

    Is it "socially unjust" to charge young students for their university education?

    Surely with university tuition free and living costs subsidised for those with the necessary qualifications a university education was far more available to 'poorer' families than it is now ???
  14. Creaky

    Is it "socially unjust" to charge young students for their university education?

    This premise may be arguable but i would suggest that those attaining a medical/accounting/teaching/veterinary degree are likely to be the type of people with the ability to earn a 'higher lifetime salary' than the average whether or not they attend university. It can be argued that university...
  15. Creaky

    Is it "socially unjust" to charge young students for their university education?

    Indeed they do but university students stand out as being a segment that have had to pay specifically to learn their skills. How many bricklayers, plumbers, bus drivers, office managers etc. do you know that have paid to learn the skills necessary to carry out those occupations? ???
  16. Creaky

    Is it "socially unjust" to charge young students for their university education?

    Those of us who didn't go to university are benefiting from the university education that others have undertaken. Would you be happy to be treated by a doctor who had not gone to university, what about your kid's teachers or the architect who designed the buildings in the high street? Happy to...
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