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If we were to re-visit this conversation in 5 years time, it would be interesting to see where Michael Carrick features. Showing flashes of promise with Boro, but their results do seem to seesaw quite a bit too.

It's an interesting point and something that Vincent Kompany clearly managed to overcome in the Championship.

Clearly Pep and Johan Cruyff are above Zidane in terms of managerial achievements. However, this discussion is about individuals who have done great things as both a player and a manager, which ZZ undoubtedly has. (Your assertion that he won things with a 'ready made team' doesn't stand up to...

I think that’s a harsh assessment, personally. He’s the only manager to win three successive European Cup/Champions League titles, winning 13 out of 14 knockout ties along the way.

In terms of achievements, Zidane has to be up there I think.

Bobby Robson potentially?