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So Barnes, Buckley, Bridcutt, Upson, Ulloa, Orlandi, Lopez, Teixeira, all going by the end of that season, you don't think had much of an impact on Hyppia starting the next? Have a look who departed and arrived at the end of the Hyppia season going into the following, it really isn't anywhere...

Doesn't that argument apply right now, do you want survival or pretty football and relegation?