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Then we're argumentatively agreeing with each other in a way. The only grey area is how well we would have played with 11 men in the second half and a bollocking. We had to hit them on the break in the 2nd because red card. We didn't do it well though.

No, my point is it's not the ref's fault. That may be others' position but it's not mine. My point is I think Cardiff were so bad that we'd have got more than 0 points without the ref's cockups despite us being shithouse I know you get that really

Let's take result and performance as two separate things, as they often are. Did the ref cost us a point? Yes, absolutely. We were the better side till Stephens went off and the winner was offside. Did we deserve a win or a draw? Not a win and barely a draw. But the erroneous red makes that...

Wait (as my kids say). I've just started reading back on this thread. What the **** does that have to do with the referee's performance? They are totally unconnected. If the ref was shit - and he was - that just inflates our shitness. It doesn't excuse his.

The most disgraceful performance since the Xfactor still allowed fat kids off council estates to embarass themselves on the auditions. Red card? Wrong. Stephens gets the ball with the inside of his foot. Goal? Offside. By a mile. Did we really commit three times as many fouls as them? No way...