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:lolol: though one persons realism is another cynicism. There is nothing undemocrwtic thoguh of a counter offer that would be too good not to put to the people

I applaud your belief in them but i am 100% sure if the uk voted out that there would be serious moves to keep the country in. Too much vested interest

I am sure we will be fine in or out. They will jsut be different paths.

Genralisation for sure. i was refering to those lefties and outers on the thread on here, ie the vocal ones, and i am pretty sure my "generalisation" relfects the normal distribution curve. Youre an outlier

:lolol: come on...

I dont think 1 is true. Those making this really difficult are lead by Poland, who have a government more "difficult" than ours. They are just negotiating in true eu style. Germany would prefer to move on. France are bein, well, french and they will always mke the british squirm (as we do to them).

I am not sure i buy this "cameron has messed up" theme propagated here by the lefties and the outers. He made a call he could shape the relationship with the eu a bit. He will get a deal but how good will be in the eye of the public. It will never be enough for those two groups. It is possible...

Ok, i guess i was picking up on the social word you used

100 there will be negotiations and people will be keen to pull the uk back from the brink

It can be mase to work through lots of,shabby deals, which is what we have at the moment. And remember germany are desperate for the euro, it has what has made it very rich. It has sucked in other countries who should have been paying a higher interest rate for debt into a lower one in the euro...

Why should the EU be the so called "progressive" which is a word the left have taken? What it should do is be accountable to its people in a democratic way and that will at times mean the things you say, but not necessarily.

:lolol: as you know, been done many times before with other countries

Maybe, maybe not. I am not advocating an out vote to get a better deal, that would be foolish. What i am saying is that i ouldnt be surprised if the uk votes out all sort of things are proposed to make us reconsider. It wouldnt take much to get another votegoing if a party wanted it

If the country votes OUT i suspect the EU will suddenly come up with a good offer. Crazy days