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A challenge isn't fine just because it involves shoulders, nor is it a foul just because there are no shoulders involved. It is, like with other fouls, about whether the barge/push/nudge was careless, reckless, used excessive force or could be interpreted as unsporting/impeding an opponent.

Ignoring that you've not read it all, if you had you would have seen my response to TLO's comments, and that in the ratings thread I have rated barnes highest, and that I'm certainly not failing to give him credit (and you will have also seen the many barnes threads here over the years when I'm...

The one I'm thinking of was right in the corner (there were two in the corner, one when time wasting in injury time that was a slight nudge in the back, the other one was shortly after their number 27 took out one of our players after the ball had gone out of play and he ref gave him a talking...

I did (I mentioned it in an earlier post in this thread). I'm not too far away from it, and to be honest I didn't think it was a foul, and neither did the guy beside me. Or the ref, if we're talking about the same incident.

Not quite. I said it might be. I thought it was soft, the first few posters to reply suggested they thought it was nailed on. I was just putting forward an explanation that might explain why I thought it was soft when so many were saying nailed on. Of course it could be me trying to look at...

Do you mean the strong challenge that was actually the sort that if he'd been booked or sent off people would be bemoaning the sanitation of the game, the way tackles are becoming illegal. I thought that was a good, strong, challenge. Or you you mean that one where Barnes was taking it to the...

I thought it was soft. Maybe that's because it was barnes and he had been throwing himself to the ground a lot throughout the game making me think it was just another barnes fall.