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Just to add: I maintain he would score more goals against better international opponents if he played against them more, but I have previously covered the difference of England with Rooney and without him, so I thought I'd do the same to see how Crouch affects the team. England with Crouch...

I never understood why people quote you, edit what you say, then act like they're correcting you, as if they are deliberately trying to embarrass you or something... :blush::dunce:

Heehee (That is a laugh at your comment, not that you haven't found the quote, I thought it was a humorous response)

No, it's not. It's about sticking to the parameters you set. Top 4. You opening up to 7 is about moving parameter to suit your opinion. The data stays the same and I've previously given the full records, so I'm not hiding them.

But it's not that simple, is it. Everything in football is a stat. Goals scored, passes completed, possession, chances, clean sheets, tackles won, and so on. You can reduce them to numbers or keep it anecdotal, goals scored is a stat, but is also one (important) way of judging a striker.

And as I've repeatedly said, I'm not calling him that, just arguing he hasn't had a chance. But really, 3 in 8 against the best 4 defences is better than "not bad", and to be so down on it is either a reaction to this perceived sense that people honestly think he's England's best goal scorer...

Yes. At the moment he hasn't been given a decent chance against top international teams to show he can do what he did against the 4 best premier league defences last season despite any shortcomings in his abilities.

Yes, you were. You said "Scores for fun against Kazakhstan and Belarus but utter shit against any defender with a brain." (post 24) I'm not saying he is the greatest, I think the myth page over states his worth, but he isn't utter shit, and I believe the only reason he "hasn't scored against...

Many other people's point is that he never scores against the big teams/good defences. My point is that a) he does b) he hasn't ever really been given a chance to for England. You can look at the previous seasons if you want to, but surely his more recent performances are more indicative of...

This Season (3 starts, 1 sub, 2 goals) - With Stoke Scored v Wigan (prem) Swindon (league cup) Last Season (37 starts, 4 subs, 14 goals) - First Season with Stoke Scored v Arsenal (prem) 8th best defence Wolves (prem) Man City (prem) Best Defence Liverpool (FA Cup) Joint 3rd best defence...

But shows he can and does score against top defences.

It also backs up what I mentioned about him never really playing for England against bigger teams.

This Season Scored v Wigan (prem) Swindon (league cup) Last Season Scored v Arsenal (prem) Wolves (prem) Man City (prem) Liverpool (FA Cup) Swansea (prem) Crawley (FA Cup) Blackburn (2) (prem) Wolves (prem) Blackburn (prem) Maccabi Tel (Europa) Arsenal (prem) Besiktas (Europa) Man Utd (prem)...

So much more thorough than my reading through his appearances list.

I remember discussing this on here a while back (June 2010), this is what I said then: It was also noted he had never scored when coming on as a sub, so was best used from the start.