Duffy

Has anyone got the clip of Duffy in the home game against Bournemouth where he gets done by Solanke?

I’m not saying he’s not good enough but this belief he is going to sort out all our defensive problems are baffling

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Originally Posted by Stephen Seagull

That’s not what I’m saying and have never said. You may be mistaking me for someone.

I bolded out a sentence which said he was one of the best in the world, that is simply not true. He’s a great defender and someone who I rate quite highly. But you need to come off the meds if you thjnk he’s one of the worlds best centre-backs

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One last run at this before I assume you are just trolling me.

I'm not saying he's one of the worlds best centre backs.

I'm saying for all his short comings, as a footballer, in his position at centre back, he is still one of the worlds best players at stopping the ball from going into the goal.

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Originally Posted by Stat Brother

One last run at this before I assume you are just trolling me.

I'm not saying he's one of the worlds best centre backs.

I'm saying for all his short comings, as a footballer, in his position at centre back, he is still one of the worlds best players at stopping the ball from going into the goal.

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Attachment 119375

I don’t have the intelligence or patience to troll anyone, but I’m not going to agree that you didn’t say he’s a world class centre back, recheck your own post!

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Originally Posted by Stephen Seagull

Attachment 119375

I don’t have the intelligence or patience to troll anyone, but I’m not going to agree that you didn’t say he’s a world class centre back, recheck your own post!

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Yes that's correct.

Not rated as a footballer.

But still one of the world's best defenders.


As I keep pointing out, and you keep missing, there is a huge difference between being a 'footballer' and a 'defender'.

Shane can, will, and does, DEFEND his goal as one of the worlds best.

But Shane can't do what the other lesser defenders, but better footballers, can:-

Pace
Guille
Control
Technique
etc

Mr Potter wants all of that from all his defenders as well as defending.
He's seems prepared to accept defensive shortcomings in favour of overall play.

Mr Hughton wanted the blunt instrument that was Duffy, using Dunk for the finesse.


Shane is a throwback centre back, a huge Irish wall, hard as nails, blunt enough to ride bare arsed to Canterbury on and rather at odds with top flight 21st century football.

What he can do, DEFEND, puts him above most of his contemporaries.
What he can't do, FOOTBALL, stops him from being even an addendum to that conversation.

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Originally Posted by seagullwedgee

No, this cannot be true..... surely not.....

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Phew. I thought she was putting out another album! Her vibrato gives me the willies!

Horses for courses and we're on a different course now.

Shane is great defending deep with team mates close by. Last ditch tackles, heading balls away. He has always looked nervous with the ball at his feet and having to chose a pass.

It seems that recently, goals against have been breakaway goals from balls slid through. Don't think Shane has the speed to chase back, or to cut out the pass. I think Webster has the potential but is suffering a crisis of confidence (not surprising with everyone on his back). If/when he gets his mojo back, he is better at bringing the ball out than anyone we've got. Remember those surging runs early on. Not seen that for the last few months. It's a shame the BDB is injured as I think Webster could do with a break. Maybe this time away will serve him well

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Originally Posted by seagullwedgee

No, this cannot be true..... surely not.....

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You ok hun?


[Note: I'm assuming that's the crappy FB response you are looking for.]

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Originally Posted by Weststander

We need to ship out dinosaurs Duffy, Dunk and Murray this month, to pave the way for All Out Potterball.

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The Championship will be quaking in their boots. The Premier League on the other hand would be merely waving us goodbye.

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Originally Posted by Springal

Has anyone got the clip of Duffy in the home game against Bournemouth where he gets done by Solanke?

I’m not saying he’s not good enough but this belief he is going to sort out all our defensive problems are baffling

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There’s also a clip available of Dunky getting properly done by Richarlison at the Amex this year. There are good strikers in this league and this will happen from time to time.

The important thing is how often it happens. In the 2 years as a regular starter in this league, Duffy made way fewer basic errors than Webster has had in his half a season with us.

What’s also important in a centre back is the ability to cover for your mates errors. What on earth was Webster thinking for that third Bournemouth goal? Why didn’t he chase it back? If we had got it back to 2-1 rather than 3-1, then we’ have had a chance to test Muff’s charachter.

I don’t ever want to come on here to have a pop at a Brighton player, but he just doesn’t have the out and out love of defending that we need in a dog fight. His distribution is ok, not brilliant by any means. Where he really looks good is carrying the ball into midfield. However, we’re playing with 2 centre backs and high full backs so there just isn’t the opportunity in the current system for him to show his worth. If we go back to 3 at the back, he should definitely play. At the moment, I see Duffy as well ahead of him.

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Originally Posted by Hugo Rune

Out of interest, how many goals have we conceded from crosses into the box without Duffy in the team?

B’Muff corner is one instant. I can’t think of many more.

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Off the top of my head both goals against Liverpool and the Chelsea goal at the Amex.

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Originally Posted by DarrenFreemansPerm

Off the top of my head both goals against Liverpool, Chelsea and Sheffield United’s goals at the Amex.

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Sheffield Utd wasn't a cross into the box, it was a long kick downfield and McBurnie outpaced Dunk to score from the right hand side

Let's not forget who was last season's Premier League highest scoring defender.


Thankfully Mr Webster hasn't been too shabby in that department.

Not that its up to him, but I'd wager that if you gave Lewis Dunk the choice of having Webster alongside him in that defence or Duffy, he'd pick Duffy every day of the week, and twice on Sundays. I'd also venture that most opposition forwards would much prefer to face Webster rather than Duffy.

Webster is a decent prospect and may well develop into a fine centreback. But at the moment he reminds me of Dunk 5 years ago - lots of good attributes, but there's always a ricket on the cards. With experience and no doubt some fine coaching from CH, Dunk has largely eliminated that from his game now, but Webster isn't there yet, and its costing us.

I think D&D have been the foundation of our success these last few years, they've been the bedrock of the team and I can't help feeling that splitting that partnership up has been a mistake. If we MUST play Webster then I'd much prefer it to be in a 3 with wingbacks. But GP just doesn't fancy him, so we are where we are I suppose. I'll be very disappointed if Duffy moves on, but you can't expect an International centreback in his prime to hang around collecting splinters, so his days here are sadly probably numbered.

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Originally Posted by Gwylan

Sheffield Utd wasn't a cross into the box, it was a long kick downfield and McBurnie outpaced Dunk to score from the right hand side

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My apologies, I was thinking of their legitimate goal that was ruled out by VAR.

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Originally Posted by Easy 10

Not that its up to him, but I'd wager that if you gave Lewis Dunk the choice of having Webster alongside him in that defence or Duffy, he'd pick Duffy every day of the week, and twice on Sundays. I'd also venture that most opposition forwards would much prefer to face Webster rather than Duffy.

Webster is a decent prospect and may well develop into a fine centreback. But at the moment he reminds me of Dunk 5 years ago - lots of good attributes, but there's always a ricket on the cards. With experience and no doubt some find coaching from CH, Dunk has largely eliminated that from his game now, but Webster isn't there yet, and its costing us.

I think D&D have been the foundation of our success these last few years, they've been the bedrock of the team and I can't help feeling that splitting that partnership up has been a mistake. If we MUST play Webster then I'd much prefer it to be in a 3 with wingbacks. But GP just doesn't fancy him, so we are where we are I suppose. I'll be very disappointed if Duffy moves on, but you can't expect an International centreback in his prime to hang around collecting splinters, so his days here are sadly probably numbered.

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GPott strode manfully into the prison yard.
He had all his posse behind him.
He chinned the biggest hardest b*****d he could find.
Pointed at Webster screaming "you answer to him now - he's your daddy".

6 months later GPott & Webbo are pleading with the warden to be sent to solitary, for their own safety.

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Originally Posted by NooBHA

And I always fancied havin a '' 9 inch Willy '' but sadly it wasn't to be

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There's still time. Congratulations at 'Coming Out' anyway. :safeway:

(I'm surprised this emoji is still allowed. I'm even more surprised that someone could be so backward as to use it. I'm less surprised that it was me.)

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Originally Posted by Megazone

My point?

You're claiming Webster is miles behind Duffy even so we're looking to loan Duffy out whilst keeping Webster who's been a regular all season. But you obviously know better than Potter who has only kept us above the relegation zone all season not to mention his previous achievements with other clubs.
It seems you're so desperate to criticise Webster you're even denying the likes of Barnes and Wood were poorly judged (which can't be argued ) by our fans when they were here just so you can maintain your argument that Webster is "miles behind Duffy". Thats pretty desperate when it comes to criticism if you ask me.

Why did I bring up Barnes in relation to your opinion of Webster I wonder? I guess you probably/conveniently won't understand that too?

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I can’t help but think you’ve wound yourself up so much that you’re losing your train of thought. Wood and Barnes were harshly judged by a lot of our fan base, but neither of them were very expensive signings who were being shoe horned into the team at the expense of the current POTS.
This season we’ve dominated possession in almost every game, but we’ve kept 5 clean sheets, the opposition doesn’t often have the ball but seem to successfully score with the few opportunities they do have.
Nobody, absolutely nobody is debating that Webster doesn’t have the attributes to go on to be a very good defender, but right now, as things stand, he’s not as good at defending as Duffy, that’s not to say Duffy doesn’t have his own limitations but right now, being in a relegation scrap, Duffy looks the better option. I believe playing alongside Webster is having an adverse effect on Dunk’s performances.
Obviously Potter has other ideas and that’s absolutely fine, but from my perspective it seems a bit odd.

Can I just say this time last season with D&D in the team, and us set up more defensively we'd conceded 2 more goals after 24 games.

We're playing a more open, attacking game, which is what everyone wanted AND we have actually conceded less. Yeah, we went away to Bournemouth and it seems it's Webster's fault, but at around this time 12 months ago we went to Fulham and conceded 4 after having a 2 goal lead!

I won't mind seeing Duffy in the side, but I'm not 100% certain the manager is getting this wrong. Duffy has his fair share of clangers in him.

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Originally Posted by Megazone

No. I just think it might help you to learn to stop the scapegoating you all seem to be uniting in right now. How else are you lot going to learn? Barnes clearly hasn't taught you much has he?

Didn't Webster receive constant criticism from some of our fans last night? Coincidence that it's now going on NSC with you all thumbing up each others criticism of him even when it's bullshit like "Barnes and wood were never criticised by our fans how is that related to Webster?" ?

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I personally believe Webster will prove to be a better player than Duffy in the future, especially under Potterball.

However we are in a fight and Duffy would be my choice in that fight not Webster, especially as Webster is making a lot of errors. His downing tools when he made that mistake for the Bournemouth third goal and not trying to recover was not a good sign.

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Originally Posted by Bold Seagull

Can I just say this time last season with D&D in the team, and us set up more defensively we'd conceded 2 more goals after 24 games.

We're playing a more open, attacking game, which is what everyone wanted AND we have actually conceded less. Yeah, we went away to Bournemouth and it seems it's Webster's fault, but at around this time 12 months ago we went to Fulham and conceded 4 after having a 2 goal lead!

I won't mind seeing Duffy in the side, but I'm not 100% certain the manager is getting this wrong. Duffy has his fair share of clangers in him.

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Last season Dunk and Duffy were expected, along with the rest of the team, to sit back and absorb wave after wave of pressure. This season the team dominates the ball which gives the opposition far less opportunities, yet we’ve only conceded 2 less. I’m not sure that’s such a clever stat.

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Originally Posted by DarrenFreemansPerm

Last season Dunk and Duffy were expected, along with the rest of the team, to sit back and absorb wave after wave of pressure. This season the team dominates the ball which gives the opposition far less opportunities, yet we’ve only conceded 2 less. I’m not sure that’s such a clever stat.

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Waves of pressure that is not resulting in goals which is leaving us open to counter attacks and teams basically setting up to absorb pressure then pounce on our mistakes.

If we keep losing the ball while applying pressure ahead of the ball, then we are going to be exposed - the Villa equaliser a case in point.

We're playing with less cover, but if you don't score and give the ball away cheaply, then your defense is going to be exposed time and time again.

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Originally Posted by Bold Seagull

Can I just say this time last season with D&D in the team, and us set up more defensively we'd conceded 2 more goals after 24 games.

We're playing a more open, attacking game, which is what everyone wanted AND we have actually conceded less. Yeah, we went away to Bournemouth and it seems it's Webster's fault, but at around this time 12 months ago we went to Fulham and conceded 4 after having a 2 goal lead!

I won't mind seeing Duffy in the side, but I'm not 100% certain the manager is getting this wrong. Duffy has his fair share of clangers in him.

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I think it's more to do with the nature of the goals that have been conceded.

So many have, to us amateurs, looked like goals that could have been stopped by a meathead charging at the ball.

Irrespective of @Stephen Seagull's opinion I firmly believe we have one of the world's best at that.
For me that then moves the question onto:-

Does Webster currently provide enough positives from the rest of his game to offset that loss?

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Originally Posted by Stat Brother

I think it's more to do with the nature of the goals that have been conceded.

So many have, to us amateurs, looked like goals that could have been stopped by a meathead charging at the ball.

Irrespective of @Stephen Seagull's opinion I firmly believe we have one of the world's best at that.
For me that then moves the question onto:-

Does Webster currently provide enough positives from the rest of his game to offset that loss?

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I would say I dont know. :shrug:

I have to assume/believe Potter and his staff have very good reasons/stats etc. for why Webster is ahead of Duffy.

If Duffy lines up against West Ham, good for him for getting his chance back, but I don't see that move as a sudden plug for why we're conceding. The issue with Duffy is that he has to read the game more quickly because there is more space between our midfield and defense. The cover he enjoyed last season isn't going to be there as much, so it needs a lot more craft, guile and reading of the game.

While Webster has made errors, the moments he steps out and intercepts opposition passes or cuts off attacks looks simple enough, but actually is the work of a defender who is reading the game and reacting quickly.

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Originally Posted by Bold Seagull

Waves of pressure that is not resulting in goals which is leaving us open to counter attacks and teams basically setting up to absorb pressure then pounce on our mistakes.

If we keep losing the ball while applying pressure ahead of the ball, then we are going to be exposed - the Villa equaliser a case in point.

We're playing with less cover, but if you don't score and give the ball away cheaply, then your defense is going to be exposed time and time again.

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So what’s going to give? Either we need better forwards to make our chances count, better midfielders to stop the defence being exposed, or we need Van Dijk and Koulibally. Failing that we need a new system.
The thing that confuses me is the impossibly narrow formation that we play, how our full backs don’t actually get up the pitch that much, play with 4 central midfielders yet get overrun in the middle. Why is there no protection, why do the defenders constantly get caught out?

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Originally Posted by Bold Seagull

I would say I dont know. :shrug:

I have to assume/believe Potter and his staff have very good reasons/stats etc. for why Webster is ahead of Duffy.

If Duffy lines up against West Ham, good for him for getting his chance back, but I don't see that move as a sudden plug for why we're conceding. The issue with Duffy is that he has to read the game more quickly because there is more space between our midfield and defense. The cover he enjoyed last season isn't going to be there as much, so it needs a lot more craft, guile and reading of the game.

While Webster has made errors, the moments he steps out and intercepts opposition passes or cuts off attacks looks simple enough, but actually is the work of a defender who is reading the game and reacting quickly.

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Yep it's a tricky one.

Montoya has more freedom forward with Webster behind him. (Even I've noticed that)
Alzate doesn't even get to the halfway line rather negating the need for Webster's attributes.

Duffy can't do 90% of what Webster can, but oh boy missing that other 10% is pretty vital.

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Originally Posted by DarrenFreemansPerm

So what’s going to give? Either we need better forwards to make our chances count, better midfielders to stop the defence being exposed, or we need Van Dijk and Koulibally. Failing that we need a new system.
Then thing that confuses me is the impossibly narrow formation that we play, how our full backs don’t actually get upon the pitch that much, play with 4 central midfielders yet get overrun in the middle. Why is there no protection, why do the defenders constantly get caught out?

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I don't profess to have the answers. I just know blaming Webster and believing Duffy is a solution is not actually solving a more complex set of issues through the side.

It's more about belief than it is personnel. Don't get me wrong, I have no issue with Duffy starting next game, but neither do I have an issue with Webster retaining his place as I don't think that is the principle problem.

The main thing is belief, and its fragile and not easily solved as Hughton found last season and it's spell has befuddled us once again. Hughton went the route of just getting more resolute to get us over the line. I'm not sure Potter will go that route, he'll be hoping we play our way out, and we'll get a break somewhere and the belief will come flooding back.

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Originally Posted by Bold Seagull

I don't profess to have the answers. I just know blaming Webster and believing Duffy is a solution is not actually solving a more complex set of issues through the side.

It's more about belief than it is personnel. Don't get me wrong, I have no issue with Duffy starting next game, but neither do I have an issue with Webster retaining his place as I don't think that is the principle problem.

The main thing is belief, and its fragile and not easily solved as Hughton found last season and it's spell has befuddled us once again. Hughton went the route of just getting more resolute to get us over the line. I'm not sure Potter will go that route, he'll be hoping we play our way out, and we'll get a break somewhere and the belief will come flooding back.

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Good post.
I don’t think for one minute that Duffy is the fix-all solution, but Webster has looked very shaky. Earlier in the season Potter took Maupay out of the team to refocus, maybe Webster needs the same care.

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Originally Posted by Bold Seagull

I don't profess to have the answers. I just know blaming Webster and believing Duffy is a solution is not actually solving a more complex set of issues through the side.

It's more about belief than it is personnel. Don't get me wrong, I have no issue with Duffy starting next game, but neither do I have an issue with Webster retaining his place as I don't think that is the principle problem.

The main thing is belief, and its fragile and not easily solved as Hughton found last season and it's spell has befuddled us once again. Hughton went the route of just getting more resolute to get us over the line. I'm not sure Potter will go that route, he'll be hoping we play our way out, and we'll get a break somewhere and the belief will come flooding back.

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This. I’m hoping that Potter has some psychologist tricks up his sleeve. And money for a strong attacking Salah/Mane type midfielder. And is keeping everyone who can shoot behind after training for extra practice.

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Originally Posted by Stat Brother

Yep it's a tricky one.

Montoya has more freedom forward with Webster behind him. (Even I've noticed that)
Alzate doesn't even get to the halfway line rather negating the need for Webster's attributes.

Duffy can't do 90% of what Webster can, but oh boy missing that other 10% is pretty vital.

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It was actually the home game against Bournemouth where it really hit me. Duffy too late spotted a Bournemouth break in the first half on their left, went charging out, missed everything and everyone and was left stood by our dugout while they broke and had a clear chance, maybe the kind of chance they missed then but scored Tues night.

Duffy wouldn't have needed to make that kind of decision last season, but with the space in front of them our centre halves are having to make those kind of front foot getting forward to challenge or intercept decisions this season. Webster probably does this better than Dunk, he is as you say however lacking Duffy's strength, power and outright determination in just clearing someone out, or just the very basics of defending, and that is what people are seeing.

That mistake at home to Bournemouth, along with one or two minor errors, despite the win, is imho why Duffy lost his place the next game home to Chelsea.

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Originally Posted by DarrenFreemansPerm

Good post.
I don’t think for one minute that Duffy is the fix-all solution, but Webster has looked very shaky. Earlier in the season Potter took Maupay out of the team to refocus, maybe Webster needs the same care.

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Can't disagree with that (your point, not saying mine was a good post :smile:), and given I'm going to West Ham in one of my limited away games this season, I won't be upset if that happens. Having Duffy to step in is a real strength in that department. It's one area we don't lack top quality cover.

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Originally Posted by Bold Seagull

It was actually the home game against Bournemouth where it really hit me. Duffy too late spotted a Bournemouth break in the first half on their left, went charging out, missed everything and everyone and was left stood by our dugout while they broke and had a clear chance, maybe the kind of chance they missed then but scored Tues night.

Duffy wouldn't have needed to make that kind of decision last season, but with the space in front of them our centre halves are having to make those kind of front foot getting forward to challenge or intercept decisions this season. Webster probably does this better than Dunk, he is as you say however lacking Duffy's strength, power and outright determination in just clearing someone out, or just the very basics of defending, and that is what people are seeing.

That mistake at home to Bournemouth, along with one or two minor errors, despite the win, is imho why Duffy lost his place the next game home to Chelsea.

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That was horrendous.........would have been a goal against a a better team.

Duffy is an absolute beast in the air and we definitely miss that. I think Dunk misses him too (and perhaps Ryan, hence him looking more nervous recently). He never loses a header, ever. He is also, though, seemingly just about incapable of a decent long ball - whenever he’s played recently it’s been noticeable how many balls get shanked into the stands by him.

Need a clone of half Webster/half Duffy.........

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Originally Posted by Stat Brother

Yes that's correct.

Not rated as a footballer.

But still one of the world's best defenders.


As I keep pointing out, and you keep missing, there is a huge difference between being a 'footballer' and a 'defender'.

Shane can, will, and does, DEFEND his goal as one of the worlds best.

But Shane can't do what the other lesser defenders, but better footballers, can:-

Pace
Guille
Control
Technique
etc

Mr Potter wants all of that from all his defenders as well as defending.
He's seems prepared to accept defensive shortcomings in favour of overall play.

Mr Hughton wanted the blunt instrument that was Duffy, using Dunk for the finesse.


Shane is a throwback centre back, a huge Irish wall, hard as nails, blunt enough to ride bare arsed to Canterbury on and rather at odds with top flight 21st century football.

What he can do, DEFEND, puts him above most of his contemporaries.
What he can't do, FOOTBALL, stops him from being even an addendum to that conversation.

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John Terry was in the same Ilk, not a classy ball player, no pace... But solid defender, a leader, brave, would throw himself in front of a bus to stop a goal, blood and guts defending.

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Originally Posted by Bold Seagull

It was actually the home game against Bournemouth where it really hit me. Duffy too late spotted a Bournemouth break in the first half on their left, went charging out, missed everything and everyone and was left stood by our dugout while they broke and had a clear chance, maybe the kind of chance they missed then but scored Tues night.

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Webster did the exact same thing v Wolves - lunged into a tackle by the dugouts, missed it, they broke swiftly into the yawning chasm of space left behind him and scored.

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Originally Posted by Easy 10

Webster did the exact same thing v Wolves - lunged into a tackle by the dugouts, missed it, they broke swiftly into the yawning chasm of space left behind him and scored.

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Yeah, I'm not saying Webster is perfect or mistake free. It's the kind of chance we are giving away this season. Webster missed that because we gave the ball away cheaply in possession and he was caught out - was it Propper played it blind square?

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Originally Posted by Bold Seagull

Yeah, I'm not saying Webster is perfect or mistake free. It's the kind of chance we are giving away this season. Webster missed that because we gave the ball away cheaply in possession and he was caught out - was it Propper played it blind square?

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It was indeed Pröpper, a shocking pass.

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Originally Posted by peterward

John Terry was in the same Ilk, not a classy ball player, no pace... But solid defender, a leader, brave, would throw himself in front of a bus to stop a goal, blood and guts defending.

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Worryingly for you I was going to use the Terry example myself, but didn't want to confuse Steve any further.
You don't want to be on the same train of thought as me!

But yes i completely agree.

As different a centre back to VVD, and all those who want to be like VVD (yet not fit to wipe his boots (even if they cost more money :whistle: )) as you can get, yet almost as effective at the one job of stopping goals.

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Originally Posted by Bold Seagull

Yeah, I'm not saying Webster is perfect or mistake free. It's the kind of chance we are giving away this season. Webster missed that because we gave the ball away cheaply in possession and he was caught out - was it Propper played it blind square?

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It was indeed, but that one led to the 2nd goal. The Webster miss was their first.

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Originally Posted by DarrenFreemansPerm

It was indeed Pröpper, a shocking pass.

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But one he took on because Webster gave him the sign to say it was ok.


As Bold says it's the stupid mistakes that are hurting (and not scoring up t'other end)

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Originally Posted by DarrenFreemansPerm

Nobody, absolutely nobody is debating that Webster doesn’t have the attributes to go on to be a very good defender, but right now, as things stand, he’s not as good at defending as Duffy, that’s not to say Duffy doesn’t have his own limitations but right now, being in a relegation scrap, Duffy looks the better option. I believe playing alongside Webster is having an adverse effect on Dunk’s performances.
Obviously Potter has other ideas and that’s absolutely fine, but from my perspective it seems a bit odd.

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I think you've forgotten this post you made last night. It seemed you couldn't say a good word about him. Even your praise was having a dig

Nice to see you can now..

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Originally Posted by DarrenFreemansPerm

Webster is miles behind Duffy in terms of actually defending, he’s not particularly strong in the air, isn’t very physical, can’t track a runner to save his life, isn’t actually anywhere near as good at distributing the ball as people think, but he does have a nice touch and squares a mean 10 yard pass to Dunk.

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We need strength and depth at this level so the truth is we need both Webster and Duffy my main issue is for both to push on we need competition for places so if one is not performing they get replaced by the other. That has not happened so far which I imagine will lead to Duffy wanting out

I also think Webster’s defensive deficiencies and Duffy’s lack of quality on the ball are both hugely overplayed on here. They are both more than capable of playing at this level.

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Originally Posted by Stat Brother

But one he took on because Webster gave him the sign to say it was ok.


As Bold says it's the stupid mistakes that are hurting (and not scoring up t'other end)

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Ahhh, so Propper played a blind pass because Webster told him it was ok. Rigghhhhttt. I don't think you really get that much conversation time in a football match.

It's OK to own up to Davy being capable of error you know, it doesn't mean he's not a good player