[Football] The "delaying the offside flag and letting it play out" thing

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Green Cross Code Man

Green Cross Code Man

Wunt be druv
Mar 30, 2006
21,197
Eastbourne
The tension exists because there are grey lines relating to the officials and their ability/responsibility to make decisions and the existence of VAR. Remove VAR and the problem goes away. The injury can certainly be blamed on VAR, it isn't a 'just what happens in sport' thing. Ordinarily the lino would flag but VAR causes erring on the side of caution and that is where the problem lies.
 




tedebear

tedebear

Legal Alien
NSC Patron
Jul 7, 2003
17,321
In my computer
Its bonkers, its like someone driving at 100mph up the A27 and the police saying, hang on a moment, lets just see what happens next...pure idiocy...

If VAR were more decisive and clearer in its intent, then this would be effective, VAR has added nothing except confusion to the game. It has its place, but it needs teeth.
 


TWOCHOICEStom

TWOCHOICEStom

Well-known member
Sep 22, 2007
11,130
Brighton
When an immediate goalscoring opportunity is likely to occur, the assistant referee will keep their flag down if they think there is an offside until the passage of play is completed.

Once a goal is scored or the chance is gone, the assistant will raise the flag to indicate the initial offence.
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www.premierleague.com

VAR explained: Delaying the offside flag

Former Premier League referee Chris Foy discusses how the assistant referee will react if he believes there is an offside incident
www.premierleague.com www.premierleague.com

We're seeing attacking advantages that result in corners where a player is clearly offside but not flagged, we're seeing injuries, this 100% has to change IMO.

If the linos were able to flag for obvious ones and stop play, do some other stuff for "not sure" and keep their flag down for onside I think that would work. Goals will always be checked regardless won't they? In the rare case where play get stopped incorrectly for what was deemed a "clear" offside then... oh well... tough?
 


beorhthelm

beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
36,463
VAR was suppose to help see obvious fouls, see what the ref missed unsighted or too fast. when it's use leads to change of how the rules are applied and how the game is played, it's clearly fudged up. authorities are allowing themselves to be directed by technology, not the other way.
 


B

Brian Munich

teH lulZ
Jul 7, 2008
922
TWOCHOICEStom said:
www.premierleague.com

VAR explained: Delaying the offside flag

Former Premier League referee Chris Foy discusses how the assistant referee will react if he believes there is an offside incident
www.premierleague.com www.premierleague.com

We're seeing attacking advantages that result in corners where a player is clearly offside but not flagged, we're seeing injuries, this 100% has to change IMO.

If the linos were able to flag for obvious ones and stop play, do some other stuff for "not sure" and keep their flag down for onside I think that would work. Goals will always be checked regardless won't they? In the rare case where play get stopped incorrectly for what was deemed a "clear" offside then... oh well... tough?
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That’s not correct though, is it? The Lino invariably flags correctly, even if late. So in a case where the offside attack is allowed to play out and results in a corner, then the late flag prevents this.
 




Gazwag

Gazwag

5 millionth post poster
Mar 4, 2004
31,344
Bexhill-on-Sea
Dave Fishwick said:
good luck to Awoniyi but this is all being wise after the event for me

there would be chaos if we conceded a goal because all our defenders stopped playing, as is natural after seeing the flag go up (like the one Shelvey scored for someone in a recent season)
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Wise after the event, every football fan in the world has been concerned that a player could get a career ending injury because of this rule. Im sure Dunk collided with a post earlier this year after a similar bottled decision by the lineman.
 


JBizzle

JBizzle

Well-known member
Apr 18, 2010
6,776
Seaford
Steve in Japan said:
Watching the game live, it was very clearly offside and should have been flagged straightaway. PGMOL need to own this and change their "protocol".
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This is what annoys me is that they don't flag for the massively offside ones either. The rule itself, as always, if sensibly applied makes sense in a VAR world, but it's not applied with common sense.

My biggest peeve is a ball over the top that's obviously offside, no flag and they get a corner
 


B

Brian Munich

teH lulZ
Jul 7, 2008
922
JBizzle said:
This is what annoys me is that they don't flag for the massively offside ones either. The rule itself, as always, if sensibly applied makes sense in a VAR world, but it's not applied with common sense.

My biggest peeve is a ball over the top that's obviously offside, no flag and they get a corner
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But they do flag in this case (once the attack has completed), don’t they??
 




Deadly Danson

Deadly Danson

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Oct 22, 2003
5,267
Brighton
tedebear said:
Its bonkers, its like someone driving at 100mph up the A27 and the police saying, hang on a moment, lets just see what happens next...pure idiocy...

If VAR were more decisive and clearer in its intent, then this would be effective, VAR has added nothing except confusion to the game. It has its place, but it needs teeth.
Click to expand...
So how would you resolve it? If we stick with VAR and it can rule on offsides, what should the Lino do? If there is doubt - and there normally is - you have to play on. If he/she flags incorrectly for offside when a player is clean through on goal in the last minute everyone would go beserk and there's nothing VAR can do once play has stopped. I think we can all agree that they should flag when they are 100% sure but that would only apply in a small number of instances. I just don't think there's any other way of doing it IF we have VAR.
 




Triggaaar

Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
55,541
Goldstone
Deadly Danson said:
I'm going to go against the grain here and say that, if you have VAR, then you have to delay the flag if there is any doubt otherwise there's no point having it.
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Exactly. I saw the first couple of replies and thought 'oh god I'm going to have to disagree with everyone again'. Goals have been ruled offside by the linesman and then given after checking plenty of times. This accident could also have happened if he'd been onside. If we really want to stop incidents like this from happening maybe we should make football a non-contact sport and not just move the goalposts, but remove them.

That's not to say we shouldn't encourage linesman to flag when it's really clear.
 






Giraffe

Giraffe

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Aug 8, 2005
27,744
Just another negative of VAR. You can't have VAR without having this impact. Stick it on the list of reasons I hate VAR. The list is long.
 


B

Brian Munich

teH lulZ
Jul 7, 2008
922
tedebear said:
Its bonkers, its like someone driving at 100mph up the A27 and the police saying, hang on a moment, lets just see what happens next...pure idiocy...
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It’s not though, is it? Driving at 100 is clearly more dangerous than driving at 70. Someone being a couple of inches offside doesn’t make the subsequent passage of play any more dangerous than the other 89 minutes of football.
 




N

Nicksinclair13

Member
Oct 28, 2023
44
Haywards Heath
Blaming the injury on the Lino not flagging is a stretch in my opinion… it didn’t cause the injury… but at the same time flagging would have prevented it obviously.

If the player was an inch onside then the injury could likely still have happened.

I do find it frustrating when someone is clearly offside and the lino leaves it…

Have shouted many expletives from ESL for this behaviour…

BUT… I would be far more annoyed if we were through on goal and play was halted incorrectly.

With VAR it does make more sense to let it play out and then pull it back… rather than stop play unnecessarily and then find out you are wrong.

Ultimately Lino’s should back them selves and flag if they think it’s clear… but err on the side of caution if not.

Where VAR doesn’t exist this is clearly nonsense and the Lino’s got to flag as he sees it.
 




S

superseagull1994

Active member
Jun 21, 2011
182
Having just watched a clip of the incident, the linesman flagging for offside and play stopping does stop this 100% BUT the collision with the post could easily happen with the player onside indeed I've seen players collide with the woodwork multiple times over the years and always worried about the dangers of a serious collision like this. Ultimately I agree with this.
Nicksinclair13 said:
Blaming the injury on the Lino not flagging is a stretch in my opinion… it didn’t cause the injury… but at the same time flagging would have prevented it obviously.

If the player was an inch onside then the injury could likely still have happened.

I do find it frustrating when someone is clearly offside and the lino leaves it…

Have shouted many expletives from ESL for this behaviour…

BUT… I would be far more annoyed if we were through on goal and play was halted incorrectly.

With VAR it does make more sense to let it play out and then pull it back… rather than stop play unnecessarily and then find out you are wrong.

Ultimately Lino’s should back them selves and flag if they think it’s clear… but err on the side of caution if not.

Where VAR doesn’t exist this is clearly nonsense and the Lino’s got to flag as he sees it.
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Iggle Piggle

Iggle Piggle

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Sep 3, 2010
6,481
Lady Whistledown said:
That's unfair. Internal injuries are frequently difficult to diagnose. He hits the post, he says it hurts, but then gets up and says he'll run it off. It's not like a broken leg where your foot's pointing the wrong way or a big cut that's bleeding all over the place. They'll go to some extent with how the player says he feels, and 99% of the time, impact injuries result in nothing but bruising.

If it's his spleen, or a lacerated liver, say then it will become more of an issue as time passes and it bleeds internally, whereby the pain will become worse, which is the point where they will start to go "hang on, this isn't normal" and start looking into it a bit deeper.

Didn't Shane Duffy have some sort of internal injury from football that left him requiring surgery? It vaguely rings a bell.
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It may be a bit unfair to the individual at Forest but the process around it I'm not so sure.

It's taken years to get away from the "Tell him he's Pele and get him back on" mentality around concussion. We've now got concussion protocols and a bit more than a magic sponge and a Terry Butcher headband. Head injuries weren't taken seriously for a long time.

Internal injuries should be the same. If in doubt take them off and don't ever take a players word for it as they will always won't to play on (Stuart Pearce famously tried to stamp out a broken leg).. The downside to this of course it will open the floodgates for the likes of Arsenal and Aston Villa to completely take the piss.
 






Nobby Cybergoat

Nobby Cybergoat

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
9,954
Brian Munich said:
It wasn’t more likely to happen just because the player was in an offside position.
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Not sure I agree with this. In a situation where there's a goal that may or may not be scored players are more likely to undertake risky actions to score or prevent it that they would in another part of the pitch

Phil Babb springs to mind
 


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