[Albion] Vivere in tempore

andy_lee007uk · Apr 5, 2025

Well do you? With the advent of VAR and at times, goal scoring decisions almost being a forensic investigation, do you still celebrate with the same gusto that you did before or are you more subdued with the celebrations whilst you await the dreaded "VAR check".

I was having this discussion with my youngest son and my Dad (Grandad) and me and my Dad really find it hard to celebrate once we score due to the almost inevitable VAR decision chalking it off.

My youngest son however literally said "celebrate as if you know we had scored, live in the moment!".

Maybe it's just the bitter disappointment of losing to Palace again...

Harry Wilson's tackle · Apr 5, 2025

I never celebrated in time.
There was always a chance of a legitimate issue, or some dumb-arse 'decision'.
All VAR does for me is make it more likely a correct decision is made.

Biscuit Barrel · Apr 5, 2025

I used to go bat shit mental when we scored before VAR.

Now I give a little cheer when we score and another little cheer when the game restarts, as that is when the goal is confirmed.

I know which one I prefer.

Harry Wilson's tackle · Apr 5, 2025

Biscuit Barrel said:
I used to go bat shit mental when we scored before VAR.

Now I give a little cheer when we score and another little cheer when the game restarts, as that is when the goal is confirmed.

I know which one I prefer.

And how about when the goal was ruled out back in the day,
by a flag for offside that MOTD showed later was well onside,
meaning we dropped 2 points,
and missed out on promotion?

Asking for a fiend.

South Stand Bonfire · Apr 5, 2025

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
And how about when the goal was ruled out back in the day,
by a flag for offside that MOTD showed later was well onside,
meaning we dropped 2 points,
and missed out on promotion?

Asking for a fiend.

But offsides back in the day were not forensically examined. Offside was the remedy to stop so called goal poaching, not to determine if someone’s big toe/armpit hair/earlobe was 1mm closer to the goal than a defenders gonads. The rule was you had to be closer or “level” to be offside. With VAR, the concept of being level cannot exist. VAR was sold to us as being the remedy to the “clear and obvious” errors and decisions would not ordinarily be re-examined.

Harry Wilson's tackle · Apr 5, 2025

South Stand Bonfire said:
But offsides back in the day were not forensically examined. Offside was the remedy to stop so called goal poaching, not to determine if someone’s big toe/armpit hair/earlobe was 1mm closer to the goal than a defenders gonads. The rule was you had to be closer or “level” to be offside. With VAR, the concept of being level cannot exist. VAR was sold to us as being the remedy to the “clear and obvious” errors and decisions would not ordinarily be re-examined.

To hell with what the rule was.
Offside calls were regularly incorrect.
I know that some people are very happy indeed with that, as long as decisions are instantaneous.
I'm not. :shrug:

Is it PotG? · Apr 5, 2025

Can he play LB?

Han Solo · Apr 5, 2025

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
To hell with what the rule was.
Offside calls were regularly incorrect.
I know that some people are very happy indeed with that, as long as decisions are instantaneous.
I'm not.

I think football, bit like dancing or drinking, is supposed to be entertaining, not correct.

Harry Wilson's tackle · Apr 5, 2025

Han Solo said:
I think football, bit like dancing or drinking, is supposed to be entertaining, not correct.

On this occasion I will have to disagree with you.
Football has to be entertaining.
Refereeing decisions have to be correct.

When The Albion were playing in tiers 3 and 4, the quality of refereeing was deplorable.
I often commented that a random decision-generating machine would be as accurate.
And so many games were nothing more than shit pantomime,
And nobody who complained was listened to,
because it Didn't Matter.
It was tier 3 and 4.

I would like to think we have moved on from that.
A bit.

Football is not just a bit of entertainment, a laugh and irrelevant.
It is something many of us are emotionally committed to.
Our club.
For decades.

And I for one do not like to be shat on.
Especially just so some pissed up oafs can get an instant decision and a dopamine rush.
Bollocks to that.
f*** off to that.
Football is more important than that.

Deadly Danson · Apr 5, 2025

It's definitely changed how I celebrate. Today's goal for example - down the other end - not a clue if there might be an offside given 2 minutes later. I didn't celebrate with the same gusto that I would if it was down our end for example when I could, for example, tell there was nothing wrong with Palace's first. Overall I'm probably just in the VAR in camp but the absolute best bit in football has lost some of its lustre and that's a shame.

Biscuit Barrel · Apr 5, 2025

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
And how about when the goal was ruled out back in the day,
by a flag for offside that MOTD showed later was well onside,
meaning we dropped 2 points,
and missed out on promotion?

Asking for a fiend.

I would be pissed off, but I would go back to to the old way in a heart beat.

I go to football for excitement, not to see 100% accurate officiating.

Eeyore · Apr 5, 2025

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
I never celebrated in time.
There was always a chance of a legitimate issue, or some dumb-arse 'decision'.
All VAR does for me is make it more likely a correct decision is made.

The upside of VAR is that it gives hope when the other team score !

GT49er · Apr 5, 2025

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
And how about when the goal was ruled out back in the day,
by a flag for offside that MOTD showed later was well onside,
meaning we dropped 2 points,
and missed out on promotion?

Asking for a fiend.

Better than waiting five minutes for VAR to try everything they know to see if they can disallow a perfectly good goal.

GT49er · Apr 5, 2025

South Stand Bonfire said:
But offsides back in the day were not forensically examined. Offside was the remedy to stop so called goal poaching, not to determine if someone’s big toe/armpit hair/earlobe was 1mm closer to the goal than a defenders gonads. The rule was you had to be closer or “level” to be offside. With VAR, the concept of being level cannot exist. VAR was sold to us as being the remedy to the “clear and obvious” errors and decisions would not ordinarily be re-examined.

Unfortunately they were. By MOTD, and then even more excessively and fanatically by Sky. Match after match they bombarded us, and the football authorities, with forensic details of 'mistakes' made, convincing all and sundry that we were being cheated out of a fair game by (marginally) poor decisions.
Frankly, IMHO, it is Sky and MOTD and other TV pundits that are the root cause of VAR. Talk about reaping what you sow.

Super Steve Earle · Apr 5, 2025

andy_lee007uk said:
Well do you? With the advent of VAR and at times, goal scoring decisions almost being a forensic investigation, do you still celebrate with the same gusto that you did before or are you more subdued with the celebrations whilst you await the dreaded "VAR check".

I was having this discussion with my youngest son and my Dad (Grandad) and me and my Dad really find it hard to celebrate once we score due to the almost inevitable VAR decision chalking it off.

My youngest son however literally said "celebrate as if you know we had scored, live in the moment!".

Maybe it's just the bitter disappointment of losing to Palace again...

I'm with your youngest. Of course I bloody celebrate!

nsclurker · Apr 5, 2025

Eeyore said:
The upside of VAR is that it gives hope when the other team score !

Not today.

papachris · Apr 5, 2025

Although I agree decisions should be correct. The one thing VAR has done is kill the instant passion and celebration stone dead. And yet on the tv later etc still they are questioning whether VAR got it correct or not. Kind of defeats the object!

A1X · Apr 5, 2025

I celebrate as normal

Two reasons;
1. Life’s too short
2. Hardly any goals are ruled out by VAR really

I didn’t celebrate one of the offside goals against Fulham because he (Adingra?) was miles offside, if you celebrated a goal that was clearly going to get ruled out then more fool you

Stato · Apr 6, 2025

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
On this occasion I will have to disagree with you.
Football has to be entertaining.
Refereeing decisions have to be correct.

When The Albion were playing in tiers 3 and 4, the quality of refereeing was deplorable.
I often commented that a random decision-generating machine would be as accurate.
And so many games were nothing more than shit pantomime,
And nobody who complained was listened to,
because it Didn't Matter.
It was tier 3 and 4.

I would like to think we have moved on from that.
A bit.

Football is not just a bit of entertainment, a laugh and irrelevant.
It is something many of us are emotionally committed to.
Our club.
For decades.

And I for one do not like to be shat on.
Especially just so some pissed up oafs can get an instant decision and a dopamine rush.
Bollocks to that.
f*** off to that.
Football is more important than that.

When dealing with disappointments like today's I think it important to remember that football is not more important than that. You're right that football clubs can be. They play an important part in holding together increasingly fractured communities. However, football results are not really that important. We should all be trying to make sure that they do not adversely influence our real lives, families and friends.

It's a cliché to get cross with non football fans saying 'It's only a game', but in reality, it should be only a game. It shouldn't be a powerbase for corrupt administrators to make themselves wealthy. It shouldn't be soft political capital for megarich murderous regimes. It shouldn't be an excuse for anybody to ever commit violence. The fact that it has been all of these things is an indication that the world takes the outcomes too seriously.

For more than a century it was good enough that some poor misguided idiot would volunteer to referee to allow matches to proceed and that all wanting to be involved were happy to agree to the standard pub quiz clause that whether right or wrong, we'd all accept the decision. The endless media scrutiny of decisions is like social media in that it makes its money by exploiting our biases and outrage. The correct response to its complaints about inconsistency should have been 'that's all part of the chaos that makes this so wonderful. Live with it: You knew that was the deal when you chose to take part.' The judiciary's response to anyone wanting to fight results or association decisions in court should have been exactly the same. Instead we've been sold the pup that technology can eliminate mistakes. The evidence is fairly damning. It simply can't. All it has done is compromised some of the thrill of the moment that made the whole business so compelling in the first place.

To paraphrase Shankly's old gag, football may be more important than life or death, but football results simply are not. It might sound too wishy washy for today's overly aggressive cultural debate, but the taking part is far more important than winning. It always has been and it's a shame that the world has forgotten that.

South Stand Bonfire · Apr 6, 2025

GT49er said:
Unfortunately they were. By MOTD, and then even more excessively and fanatically by Sky. Match after match they bombarded us, and the football authorities, with forensic details of 'mistakes' made, convincing all and sundry that we were being cheated out of a fair game by (marginally) poor decisions.
Frankly, IMHO, kit is Sky and MOTD and other TV pundits that are the root cause of VAR. Talk about reaping what you sow.

I agree that TV has a lot to answer for regarding how much attention is paid to dubious decisions, but what I was trying to convey is the literally minuscule measurements that are today being used. There should be a broader offside line used for VAR offsides imo. We should go back and revisit why the rule was brought in. Wasn’t an offside given yesterday for a French players ear being offside in the French league?!

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