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[Politics] Gary's Economics



schmunk

schmunk

Well-used member
Jan 19, 2018
11,006
Mid mid mid Sussex
Uh_huh_him said:
Not sure why the character assassination is relevant in GS case.
He is proposing a very specific economic policy.
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I'm not attempting to assassinate GS's character, rather the characterisation he has cloaked himself in, as a man-of-the-people, boy-done-good, cheeky chappy, who just happens to be the world's best trader but decided to walk away from the industry through no fault of his own.

If he dropped the act, and stuck to the policy, I could like him better.
 




highflyer

highflyer

Well-known member
Jan 21, 2016
2,719
Machiavelli said:
I am yet to watch a podcast but have heard him contribute to a few news items; I doubt I will watch a podcast too.
But podcasts are popular and all to the good someone focusing on wealth inequality. I'd offer two things. First, if you really want to find out about anything reading is a better route than podcasts, because we absorb more information through reading than via any other format. Second, if you want to know about wealth inequality then Thomas Piketty is the go-to. Within that, if you want Piketty's solution then go straight to ch17 of Capital & Ideology.
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Stevenson explicitly draws on Piketty's work and reaches the same conclusion. Eg 'tax wealth or we are f*cked'. Piketty is brilliant, but will never be able (or willing) to communicate his ideas in the way that Stevenson does. Zucman is better, but, as this thread shows, Stevenson can cut through in a way that others have failed to do over years of trying.
 


Uh_huh_him

Uh_huh_him

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2011
14,000
schmunk said:
I'm not attempting to assassinate GS's character, rather the characterisation he has cloaked himself in, as a man-of-the-people, boy-done-good, cheeky chappy, who just happens to be the world's best trader but decided to walk away from the industry through no fault of his own.

If he dropped the act, and stuck to the policy, I could like him better.
Click to expand...
What makes you say it's an act?
Are you saying that he doesn't come from a working class east-end background?

He hasn't stated he was the world's best trader.
His claim is that he was Citbank's top trader for a year or two.
I would guess there are several people who could make similar claims.

I've watched quite a lot of his stuff and he alludes to some kind of breakdown which led to him leaving his job at citibank.
I haven't read his book, so I wouldn't know whether this is discussed in detail.

I haven't seen any evidence to support your assumptions.
I'd be interested to see it, if you have some.
 


chickens

chickens

Have you considered masterly inactivity?
NSC Patron
Oct 12, 2022
3,147
Uh_huh_him said:
What makes you say it's an act?
Are you saying that he doesn't come from a working class east-end background?

He hasn't stated he was the world's best trader.
His claim is that he was Citbank's top trader for a year or two.
I would guess there are several people who could make similar claims.

I've watched quite a lot of his stuff and he alludes to some kind of breakdown which led to him leaving his job at citibank.
I haven't read his book, so I wouldn't know whether this is discussed in detail.

I haven't seen any evidence to support your assumptions.
I'd be interested to see it, if you have some.
Click to expand...

I find it amazing how quick we are to play the man rather than the ball. It’s a useful tool to discourage engaging with and thinking about the subject matter.

Let’s ignore all the content, and argue about the presentation.
 


M

Machiavelli

Well-known member
Oct 11, 2013
18,504
Fiveways
highflyer said:
Stevenson explicitly draws on Piketty's work and reaches the same conclusion. Eg 'tax wealth or we are f*cked'. Piketty is brilliant, but will never be able (or willing) to communicate his ideas in the way that Stevenson does. Zucman is better, but, as this thread shows, Stevenson can cut through in a way that others have failed to do over years of trying.
Click to expand...
I'm sure you're right on this. Piketty is dull to read, but glad to find someone else on here that recognises who it is that has contributed the analysis.
 




GoldstoneVintage

GoldstoneVintage

Well-known member
Oct 20, 2024
661
Europe
Machiavelli said:
I am yet to watch a podcast but have heard him contribute to a few news items; I doubt I will watch a podcast too.
But podcasts are popular and all to the good someone focusing on wealth inequality. I'd offer two things. First, if you really want to find out about anything reading is a better route than podcasts, because we absorb more information through reading than via any other format. Second, if you want to know about wealth inequality then Thomas Piketty is the go-to. Within that, if you want Piketty's solution then go straight to ch17 of Capital & Ideology.
Click to expand...
Interestingly, GS quotes Piketty fairly regularly. Capital and Ideology is also on my 'reading list', but as an audio book (sorry) 😂
 


Blue3

Blue3

Well-known member
Jan 27, 2014
6,001
Lancing
While not being an economist myself I did study management at university what he is saying makes sense however I do find his presentation style a bit boring he could have stopped after explaining his four social groupings as he was in my opinion clearly plagiarising Abraham Maslow who proposed a theory that remains popular in higher education and is widely used as a tool in business and management training, sociology-research, healthcare and social work.
Since Abraham Maslow published his 1943 paper A Theory of Human Motivation which first proposed his hierarchy of human needs.
The answer to the question why do we live in a world with so much inequality as the 1% get wealthier and the rest poorer with 50% below the poverty minimum and obviously the answer is either tax or eat the rich leaving it to the American version of capitalism where wealth is something to admire and avoidance of paying tax while philanthropy is seen as self evidence of doing good with wealth when in fact it is often just self indulgence.
Write to your MP telling them that we need to have a more fair society where the rich don’t need billions where paying your taxes and your employee’s a decent salary is what makes a good no great member of the society they we all want to live in.
 


Bakero

Bakero

Languidly clinical
Oct 9, 2010
15,602
Almería
Machiavelli said:
Nope. This is a myth, perpetrated by Marxists and those that like to bang on about 'the military-industrial complex'. Capitalism doesn't like wars because they're a departure from the operation of the free market and capital accumulation.
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It was Eisenhower who coined the term military industrial complex in his farewell address in 1961, lamenting the power of the pentagon, war-driven economics and defense contractors lobbying influencing foreign policy.

A year later Friedman's Capitalism and Freedom was released, laying out the neoliberal policies that would come to dominate. He was instrumental in driving the US coup in Chile in the early 70s, making it a testing ground for free market policies.

The Chicago Boys, Chilean neoliberal economists trained by Friedman, then played a key role in Argentina after the US-backed coup there in the late 70s.

Then in the early 80s the US invaded Grenada to install a puppet to implement neoliberal policies. In the late 80s, they did the same in Panama, getting rid of their old pal Noriega when he stopped playing ball.

I could go on. It's pretty clear that Neoliberals are pretty keen on war in order to spread their gospel, enrich their mates and maintain US hegemony
 




beorhthelm

beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
36,434
chickens said:
I find it amazing how quick we are to play the man rather than the ball. It’s a useful tool to discourage engaging with and thinking about the subject matter.

Let’s ignore all the content, and argue about the presentation.
Click to expand...
in his case it's quite valid as he constantly makes reference to his upbringing and trading success.
 


Bakero

Bakero

Languidly clinical
Oct 9, 2010
15,602
Almería
Alex BH said:
I don’t understand why this geezer is getting all this exposure seemingly out of nowhere. I mean I like some of what he says, but I don’t like this look how working class I am I wear hoodies everywhere and don’t sit in chairs properly thing. The geezer must be absolutely loaded so what the heck is that all about. I’m very suspicious of him.
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Would you prefer a plummy voiced Old Etonian? Perhaps telling you to hug a hoodie rather than wearing one himself
 


chickens

chickens

Have you considered masterly inactivity?
NSC Patron
Oct 12, 2022
3,147
beorhthelm said:
in his case it's quite valid as he constantly makes reference to his upbringing and trading success.
Click to expand...

Don’t really care if he’s been selling fruit and veg from a market stall. He’s clear and is worth listening to.

I haven’t watched/listened to loads of his stuff, but he hasn’t been wrong in what I’ve heard and he’s making the points that are probably our only hope of avoiding a Reform UK government in the near future. Mainstream politicians are largely glossing over the points that he’s making, there’s no hope in any of their messaging. Remember Blair’s message of encouraging social mobility, striving and succeeding? It feels like a different world.

Reform UK and the modern Conservative Party want us fighting each other like rats in a sack, punching down and around us. Even Starmer’s Labour have encouraged the messaging of “it woz the sick what took the money and ran away.”

Without hope there’s no reason to try, the world as configured is going through a mental health epidemic because it’s hostile by design. I don’t care what he looks like, sounds like, or whether he was only the third best trader in his team. He’s an antidote to the Andrew Tate’s and hate-filled bilge that passes for political discourse these days. That’s good enough for me.
 








BadFish

BadFish

Huge Member
Oct 19, 2003
19,718
Uh_huh_him said:
schmunk said:
Do you not think people should be held to account for the things they say and do? In Gary Stevenson's case it appears he has made several significant and specific lies about his background, both in the level of poverty/disadvantage of his childhood was and the success of his career - n.b. he only worked in banking for about 6 years, having been sidelined to Tokyo part way through, spending 6 months on sick leave and the last year in a middle/back office "admin job".

Rachel Reeves' CV exaggerations are noteworthy but not really in the same league. As for calling her "Rachel from accounts", what kind of wanker would do that?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Are there other accounts of his career that are proving him to have lied?


The narrative you have described in your 'NB' is taken directly from his book, written and described by him.
 
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BadFish

BadFish

Huge Member
Oct 19, 2003
19,718
Uh_huh_him said:
Not sure why the character assassination is relevant in GS case.
He is proposing a very specific economic policy.

He did make money by betting against UK government economic policy, because he knew it was based on a false premise.
Nothing has changed in relation to government economic policy and the state of the economy.

Whether his version of his past is 100% bulletproof is pretty irrelevant isn't it?
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The fact that someone chooses to ignore the substance of Gary's message and attack his character is fascinating to me. Unless they are one of the super rich he is suggesting pay more tax, what could the motivation for this be?
 
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BadFish

BadFish

Huge Member
Oct 19, 2003
19,718
Machiavelli said:
Nope. This is a myth, perpetrated by Marxists and those that like to bang on about 'the military-industrial complex'. Capitalism doesn't like wars because they're a departure from the operation of the free market and capital accumulation.
Click to expand...
Surely if you are in the business of selling war machinery, rebuilding countries in the void of war or redistributing resources then war is very profitable. There are many companies in the US that have made vast sums of money from America's foreign policy over the last 30 odd years.

I guess this isn't classed neoliberalism though.
 


BadFish

BadFish

Huge Member
Oct 19, 2003
19,718
chickens said:
I find it amazing how quick we are to play the man rather than the ball. It’s a useful tool to discourage engaging with and thinking about the subject matter.

Let’s ignore all the content, and argue about the presentation.
Click to expand...

Uh_huh_him said:
What makes you say it's an act?
Are you saying that he doesn't come from a working class east-end background?

He hasn't stated he was the world's best trader.
His claim is that he was Citbank's top trader for a year or two.
I would guess there are several people who could make similar claims.

I've watched quite a lot of his stuff and he alludes to some kind of breakdown which led to him leaving his job at citibank.
I haven't read his book, so I wouldn't know whether this is discussed in detail.

I haven't seen any evidence to support your assumptions.
I'd be interested to see it, if you have some.
Click to expand...
It's all in his book, I am interested to know what @schmunk is taking issue with from Gary's story and what the alternative narrative is. The only article so far provided is described in detail in his book.
 


schmunk

schmunk

Well-used member
Jan 19, 2018
11,006
Mid mid mid Sussex
BadFish said:
It's all in his book, I am interested to know what @schmunk is taking issue with from Gary's story and what the alternative narrative is. The only article so far provided is described in detail in his book.
Click to expand...
His own parents have disputed his account of his childhood.

Several of his former colleagues (from his very truncated banking career) have disputed his claims of being the best trader in the business.

To be very clear, I am not against his (borrowed) economic arguments, but I don't think he does the message any favours by continually repeating his exaggerations.
 




nicko31

nicko31

Well-known member
Jan 7, 2010
19,089
Gods country fortnightly
Simster said:
Yes. So is gifting money 7 years in advance.

And yet despite this, it remains one of the most effective ways of redistributing wealth.
Click to expand...
More tax rises coming, need to eliminate these IHT loopholes.

As far Gary he makes a lot of valid comment about wealth inequality, the middle class are now starting to feel the pinch. Priced out of many things by the uber wealthy.
 


BadFish

BadFish

Huge Member
Oct 19, 2003
19,718
schmunk said:
His own parents have disputed his account of his childhood.

Several of his former colleagues (from his very truncated banking career) have disputed his claims of being the best trader in the business.

To be very clear, I am not against his (borrowed) economic arguments, but I don't think he does the message any favours by continually repeating his exaggerations.
Click to expand...
Do you have a link to this, I haven't seen it?

www.dailymail.co.uk

Gary Stevenson's mother throws into doubt his childhood poverty claims

Stevenson, 38, has repeatedly highlighted his apparently impoverished childhood in his bestselling book and his YouTube videos calling for higher taxes for the rich in the UK.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk

I found this but can't recall the specifics in his book to know if it is calling out lies or a different perspective on his childhood. The thrust of the book as I remember if was the comparison between his upbringing and that of his peers at grammar school, LSE and Citibank. That Daily Mail article nor his mother (who at that point hadn't read his book) doesn't really dispute that.

I don't remember him claiming to be the best trader in the business, quite the opposite, he was clearly in awe of many people he worked with. His claim was he was one of the best performing traders at Citibank for a couple of years.

Are there specifics in his book you are calling lies?

I can't see that differing versions of a childhood affect his message in the slightest, unless you wish it to.
 
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