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[News] Should we Bring Back National Service? Sunak says YES.

Would you support a Form of Military Service? If so, what kind?

  • No, not in any form

    Votes: 223 54.0%

  • One month, as a voluntary, community based scheme

    Votes: 20 4.8%

  • One year, voluntary, community based scheme

    Votes: 42 10.2%

  • Voluntary military service for 12 months

    Votes: 23 5.6%

  • Compulsory community based military service for one month

    Votes: 26 6.3%

  • Compulsory military service for 12 months

    Votes: 82 19.9%

  • How old are you - 18-24

    Votes: 10 2.4%

  • 25-49

    Votes: 83 20.1%

  • 50-64

    Votes: 121 29.3%

  • 65+

    Votes: 59 14.3%
  • Total voters
    413


T

TomandJerry

Well-known member
Oct 1, 2013
11,892
Reform UK has dismissed the pledge as "so desperate".

In a post on X, party leader Richard Tice says the Tories are "putting out unconsidered impractical policy ideas" that the military do not want and did not ask for.

The policy - which James Cleverly said this morning would help young people learn new skills - has come under attack from across the political spectrum.
 




Guinness Boy

Guinness Boy

Tofu eating wokerati
Helpful Moderator
NSC Patron
Jul 23, 2003
35,064
Up and Coming Sunny Portslade
TomandJerry said:
Reform UK has dismissed the pledge as "so desperate".

In a post on X, party leader Richard Tice says the Tories are "putting out unconsidered impractical policy ideas" that the military do not want and did not ask for.

The policy - which James Cleverly said this morning would help young people learn new skills - has come under attack from across the political spectrum.
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The name “Death Tax” finished off Theresa May. Maybe we could rename this “Teenage Slavery”.
 


Commander

Commander

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Apr 28, 2004
13,161
London
AlbionBro said:
"Be prepared" my scout leader used to tell us, and I have carried that mantra through my life to great effect. The kids of today are being brain washed by social media many to there detriment. As much a I hate to say it, Sunak may have something here to change this country from those hoodie no hoper kids back into respectful people.
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Have to say I agree. As someone who has employed a lot of 19-24 year olds in recent times, so many of them completely lack basic life skills that I had at that age. Them having to do some charity work or clean up some beaches or work with the elderly would do them the world of good. I’d be bang up for my own kids doing it.

I think when people hear the words ‘National Sevice’ they imagine being screamed at by some Drill Sergeant for not having made their bed correctly. But if it was actually done right, and something that would teach them some life skills and build a bit of resilience, I think it could benefit a lot of teenagers.
 
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pb21

pb21

Well-known member
Apr 23, 2010
6,441
Commander said:
Have to say I agree. As someone who has employed a lot of 19-24 year olds in recent times, so many of them complete lack basic life skills that I had at that age. Them having to do some charity work or clean up some beaches or work with the elderly would do them the world of good. I’d be bang up for my own kids doing it.
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Did you do national service? If not, why do you think today's youth lack basic life skills that you had at the same age?

Also, nothing stopping your kids volunteering today, no reason for it to be mandatory.
 


P

pocketseagull

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2014
1,132
This is obviously stupid to most but the danger is such a desperate idiotic campaign will shift the Overton window further rightwards.

I was working full time at 18, would I have been exempt? If so how would that be checked? What if that meant I was exempt but I quit or got fired?
 




Guinness Boy

Guinness Boy

Tofu eating wokerati
Helpful Moderator
NSC Patron
Jul 23, 2003
35,064
Up and Coming Sunny Portslade
Commander said:
Have to say I agree. As someone who has employed a lot of 19-24 year olds in recent times, so many of them complete lack basic life skills that I had at that age. Them having to do some charity work or clean up some beaches or work with the elderly would do them the world of good. I’d be bang up for my own kids doing it.

I think when people hear the words ‘National Sevice’ they imagine being screamed at by some Drill Sergeant for not having made their bed correctly. But if it was actually done right, and something that would teach them some life skills and build a bit of resilience, I think it could benefit a lot of teenagers.
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But is it a better use of £2.5 billion than paying teachers and doctors properly?

Schools should be teaching resilience and doctors should be dealing with the post pandemic mental health epidemic. Not drill sergeants, litter pickers and vicars. Perhaps if we paid them properly, rethought the curriculum and reduced NHS waiting times they would.
 


R

ROSM

Well-known member
Dec 26, 2005
6,436
Just far enough away from LDC
Commander said:
Have to say I agree. As someone who has employed a lot of 19-24 year olds in recent times, so many of them complete lack basic life skills that I had at that age. Them having to do some charity work or clean up some beaches or work with the elderly would do them the world of good. I’d be bang up for my own kids doing it.

I think when people hear the words ‘National Sevice’ they imagine being screamed at by some Drill Sergeant for not having made their bed correctly. But if it was actually done right, and something that would teach them some life skills and build a bit of resilience, I think it could benefit a lot of teenagers.
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If you had them and people today don't, the how did you get yours? Was it doing free work for the state or learning to bayonet the hun or commies?

I got mine from being able to balance school/college and work (leaflet delivering, cleaning the school after hours, working in a laundry etc). The pressure today on kids in 6th form has taken that away from some.
 






Pevenseagull

Pevenseagull

Anti-greed coalition
Jul 20, 2003
19,919
The community for the one month military service option for Eton graduates will be Klosters or Monserrat.
 


WATFORD zero

WATFORD zero

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 10, 2003
26,341
Commander said:
Have to say I agree. As someone who has employed a lot of 19-24 year olds in recent times, so many of them complete lack basic life skills that I had at that age. Them having to do some charity work or clean up some beaches or work with the elderly would do them the world of good. I’d be bang up for my own kids doing it.

I think when people hear the words ‘National Sevice’ they imagine being screamed at by some Drill Sergeant for not having made their bed correctly. But if it was actually done right, and something that would teach them some life skills and build a bit of resilience, I think it could benefit a lot of teenagers.
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I didn't need to do National Service to gain my basic life skills, I found the years I spent working full time between 15 and 20 helped me gain them very quickly :wink: If some of those youngsters you've employed are straight out of college/Uni and into their first jobs, that may be part of the explanation.

And if you're bang up for getting your kids to to charity work, do it. Both mine have done charity work over the years, a couple of times for quite long periods. My son still remembers how much effect working and chatting to people doing community service as a result of court sentences had on him. They also spent a few years while at College/Uni working part time in shit jobs as a lot of students do and I think both of these helped with basic life skills. Good luck with yours :thumbsup:
 
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B

Berty23

Well-known member
Jun 26, 2012
3,286
Commander said:
Have to say I agree. As someone who has employed a lot of 19-24 year olds in recent times, so many of them complete lack basic life skills that I had at that age. Them having to do some charity work or clean up some beaches or work with the elderly would do them the world of good. I’d be bang up for my own kids doing it.

I think when people hear the words ‘National Sevice’ they imagine being screamed at by some Drill Sergeant for not having made their bed correctly. But if it was actually done right, and something that would teach them some life skills and build a bit of resilience, I think it could benefit a lot of teenagers.
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This has been said by every single generation. Ever.

In fact a while ago on here I dug out Hansard and showed it was raised in Parliament as a problem over and over the last century.
 




B

Berty23

Well-known member
Jun 26, 2012
3,286
I should point out. I have three teenage kids.

My 15 year old lad has a paper round he shares with a mate week on and week off. Up before school and at weekends. He also had to give up playing hockey due to a foot issue so he qualified as an umpire so does this for 15 quid a match and also volunteers 3 hours every Sunday morning and 2 hours on Thursday evenings to coach 10-14 year olds.

I have 13 year old twin daughters. One is autistic and struggles with strangers so she helps out where she can with my wife who is a teacher and organises stuff with school. My other one also has a paper round which she does 7 days a week and every week apart from when we are on holiday. Coaches hockey for 90 mins with the younger kids after her session.

My kids are not unusual or special here. Many many kids do the same as this but older generations love to pretend kids don’t get involved. I am mid 40s and thinking back to when I was entering the workforce after uni we all mucked about and drove bosses mad etc. it is what young people do. It is part of growing up. I am always staggered that people forget what them and their peers were like when we were that age. Christ the late 90s was carnage compared to what the kids get up to these days. We were always pissed or off our heads on other stuff. The yoof these days are far better behaved than we were.
 


Hugo Rune

Hugo Rune

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Feb 23, 2012
22,112
Brighton
Commander said:
Have to say I agree. As someone who has employed a lot of 19-24 year olds in recent times, so many of them complete lack basic life skills that I had at that age. Them having to do some charity work or clean up some beaches or work with the elderly would do them the world of good. I’d be bang up for my own kids doing it.

I think when people hear the words ‘National Sevice’ they imagine being screamed at by some Drill Sergeant for not having made their bed correctly. But if it was actually done right, and something that would teach them some life skills and build a bit of resilience, I think it could benefit a lot of teenagers.
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There would only be space in the armed forces for less the 5% of 18 year olds. For the rest, it’d turn into road sweeping or just teens hanging around in public on their phones whilst their handlers tried to find them something useful to do.

When you look at the detail, this is only designed to stoke a culture war and drive division. It’s a cheap political trick intended to give the older generation a chance to have a dig at the younger generation. And judging by this thread, quite a few older folk are doing exactly what the Tories require.
 


Swimboy64

Swimboy64

Well-known member
Oct 19, 2022
412
macbeth said:
ah yes because previous generations were never famed for getting involved in trouble at the footy…
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Yes that’s right but the post I replied to was asking for current examples of entitlement
Oh course Hillsborough Heysel are terrible examples of the previous generations entitlement
 








BadFish

BadFish

Huge Member
Oct 19, 2003
17,254
GT49er said:
And from what other groups that you disagree with should the vote be taken away? It must be awful for you to vote and find your choice does not prevail.
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We are 1-1 at the moment aren't we?

But yes, I was furious about Boaty McBoat Face.
 


hart's shirt

hart's shirt

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2003
10,348
Kitbag in Dubai
Pevenseagull said:
The community for the one month military service option for Eton graduates will be Klosters or Monserrat.
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To be fair, those basic rations of venison steak aren't going to eat themselves.

"Some folks are born silver spoon in hand
Lord, don't they help themselves, Lord?
But when the taxman come to the door
Lord, the house lookin' like a rummage sale, yeah
It ain't me, it ain't me
I ain't no millionaire's son, no, no
It ain't me, it ain't me
I ain't no fortunate one, no"

 




Pavilionaire

Pavilionaire

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2003
30,839
I'll turn the argument on its head and make a different point and that is the hypocrisy of telling the young they should be compelled to do unpaid "voluntary" work while a whole raft of people 55+ with time on their hands do nothing for their community.

Up and down the country voluntary organisations, committees, parish councils are looking for people to help but it is the same old faces filling multiple roles to put on community events and run local groups.

On a personal level I am a working accountant with 2 teenagers and yet fill a number of unpaid auditor roles and EVERY organisation I deal with has problems with getting a treasurer, and yet there will be a stack of local people retired or semi- retired who could undertake that roll but choose not too.

So let's not pretend it is just the young who need to engage with their community more.
 


B

Berty23

Well-known member
Jun 26, 2012
3,286
Pavilionaire said:
I'll turn the argument on its head and make a different point and that is the hypocrisy of telling the young they should be compelled to do unpaid "voluntary" work while a whole raft of people 55+ with time on their hands do nothing for their community.

Up and down the country voluntary organisations, committees, parish councils are looking for people to help but it is the same old faces filling multiple roles to put on community events and run local groups.

On a personal level I am a working accountant with 2 teenagers and yet fill a number of unpaid auditor roles and EVERY organisation I deal with has problems with getting a treasurer, and yet there will be a stack of local people retired or semi- retired who could undertake that roll but choose not too.

So let's not pretend it is just the young who need to engage with their community more.
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I know lots of people in their early 60s with a fantastic pension who all feel they have done their bit by working so why should they? They are now enjoying the fruits of their hard work and living in a 5 bed house that cost them 40k and is now worth 850k. They worked hard for that house and capital growth. The young need to stop complaining about the prospect of having to work 12 consecutive days once a month (with two of them unpaid) and suck it up.
 


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