Hotchilidog
Well-known member
- Jan 24, 2009
- 8,733
Holy crap, He is MILES onside on a completely different band turf to the defender before he touches the ball.
This is a farce. They should reinstate that goal having seen that.
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[Football] FA Cup semi finals
- Thread starter Flounce
- Start date
Holy crap, He is MILES onside on a completely different band turf to the defender before he touches the ball.
This is a farce. They should reinstate that goal having seen that.
pb21
Well-known member
- Apr 23, 2010
- 6,336
I watched this numerous times in disbelief he was about 1 yard on side at least when the ball was passed to him
pb21
Well-known member
- Apr 23, 2010
- 6,336
Do you think that should be offside? Not whether it was or wasn't, but whether it should be.
That’s true, but I’m struggling to rationalise why the defender would be ahead of the attacker, like the attack would have no reason to slow down their run to reach the ball.You can't see the attacker and defender when the ball is played
pb21
Well-known member
- Apr 23, 2010
- 6,336
Because the defender was moving towards the goal, but the attacker still or moving slower?
Arthritic Toe
Well-known member
Yes - because thems the rules. The attacker was ahead of the last defender. Unless we all agree to change the rule to add a clause "unless it prevents one of the greatest comebacks in FA cup history, in which case it shall be deemed onside", then it should be offside.
The wide view on youtube shows he was at least a yard onside when he received the ball
Some of the media realise what they have pushed onto us all.
If he's offside he's offside
I didn't want VAR.
And just to stir it up a bit more ....
How can you tell if it was REALLY offside? All the attention was on the usual line drawing of the forward player resulting in one of the infamous 'toenail' offside decisions. Tough luck and all that, it was very very very close, but rules are rules and it's a binary decision. But it was SO close, so how can you tell the exact moment that the ball stopped being in contact with the player's foot when he passed it forward? They didn't concentrate on that.
So as it was impossible to tell the decision of the on-field officials should have stood. Not offside, valid goal.
pb21
Well-known member
- Apr 23, 2010
- 6,336
Rules/laws can be modified. My view is that incidents such as this shouldn't be offside. It's nothing to do with preventing the greatest comeback ever, or goals that we have scored that have been ruled offside. I think the laws should be changed to reflect the fact that we now have VAR.
Arthritic Toe
Well-known member
The Twitter image is misleading. The defender was sprinting back and the attacker was running back from an offside position to try and get onside. In the quarter second between the ball being played and us first seeing the attacker, the relative positions have changed significantly.
TWOCHOICEStom
Well-known member
Multiple things going on here.
For me the biggest problem is that the line was drawn on the wrong frame. The Cov player scooped the ball, the freeze-frame used shows him just touching it. Given that it was so very tight, one or two frames later and I think he's onside by quite a margin.
The line drawing is shaky at best.
The video above is meaningless by the time the camera gets round to the receiving player he looks 5 yards on but that matters not one jot.
Above all, I cannot feel more sorry for Coventry. One of the greatest all time comebacks of the FA Cup taken away from us in favour of (shock horror) Manchester United.
For me the biggest problem is that the line was drawn on the wrong frame. The Cov player scooped the ball, the freeze-frame used shows him just touching it. Given that it was so very tight, one or two frames later and I think he's onside by quite a margin.
The line drawing is shaky at best.
The video above is meaningless by the time the camera gets round to the receiving player he looks 5 yards on but that matters not one jot.
Above all, I cannot feel more sorry for Coventry. One of the greatest all time comebacks of the FA Cup taken away from us in favour of (shock horror) Manchester United.
Joey Jo Jo Jr. Shabadoo
Waxing chumps like candles since ‘75
- Oct 4, 2003
- 11,131
It doesn't matter where he was when he received the ball. It's where he was when the pass is made that matters. The twitter video above proves nothing as you can't see the defender or the attacker when the pass is made.
Also the still shot from VAR shows that the United defender is running towards his own goal, the Coventry attacker is delaying his run to try and stay onside, that's why when he gets the ball the defender is closer to the goal.
It's marginal and it's shit as VAR is taking the fun away from football. It was meant to rule out controversy but we've had way more with VAR than without. Lets see what fun and games the semi automatic system brings in. I'm sure PGMOL will find a way to cock that up too as it seemed to work ok at the World Cup.
Arthritic Toe
Well-known member
To what though? Wherever you decide to draw the line, be it six inches / one yard ahead VAR will give you a binary decision. You either make it a human decision or a binary VAR decision. If you want VAR this is what you get - there's no discretion - it can't work like that, its the reason for its very existence. My choice (and has always been) - get rid of VAR and keep it human.
pb21
Well-known member
- Apr 23, 2010
- 6,336
Yeah, there will always be 1 mm offside outcomes, don't have a problem with that and dont think there should be any discretion applied, just where the binary line is drawn.
Seems straightforward to me, that's the wrong frame as the player hasn't released the ball if the next available frame is too far(i.e the ball has gone beyond his final touch) and the attacker is onside, then VAR is inconclusive. The lino didn't give it, so it stays with onfield decision. It's a goal
Billy the Fish
Technocrat
The attacker isn't ahead, they're level.
For 100ish years, players in that position have been considered to be level. It's a rule that was never designed to be measured in such a precise way, it's supposed to stop an attacker gaining an advantage. Even if you still believe that's the correct way of doing things, the technology has a level of tolerance and it operated by humans, it's impossible for it to be 100% accurate.
Personally I think they should keep the video ref but still judge it by eye, as a linesman would. Give them 15 seconds to decide, if it's too tight to call in that timeframe then it's not offside.
You said 'If you know football you know it’s offside during the build up'. I wondered how you reached that conclusion. One that you could only reach if you were bang in line.You aren't sure how I drew the conclusion that he was offside? .
Anyway, There's definitely a conversation about VAR and offside for sure. I read someone's previous post about the defenders proximity from the attacker, which is interesting, but potentially adding horizontal lines to consider how far they are from the attacker would be a nightmare.Iclear and all for a phase of play that shouldn't have even been allowed to pass.
As for 'adding horizontal lines' to consider how far apart the players are.... not seen anybody mention horizontal lines. They would just add vertical lines calibrated to the pitch, exactly as they do now but with a tolerance level built in.
Simple explanation. You can't see Wan-Bissaka when the ball is kicked. By the time you can, he's run back into position.