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[Football] FA Cup semi finals



Bold Seagull

Bold Seagull

strong and stable with me, or...
Mar 18, 2010
29,832
Hove
dazzer6666 said:
Not really, seems to me more a reasonable debate around the limitations of the current use and application of VAR, triggered by yet another very marginal decision :shrug:
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Agreed. Think most of us are debating the technology, it's accuracy and how it's deployed. Whether it evened out, was or wasn't offside isn't really the point.
 








trueblue

trueblue

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
10,445
Hove
Berty23 said:
So how far offside does someone need to be before they should be flagged offside? At some point there will be a point under your definition where they change from being okay to goal hanging. What is it?
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To be decided and not easy - didn't say it was. Let's just propose without thinking much about it at all, 30cm from the second last defender. You're right, people will still moan because that's what people do. The difference is that they'd be arguing about a player being 30cm PLUS a toenail offside. It's a much easier argument to dismiss because whether or not the line is frame accurate, you're then talking about him/her being far enough offside to have gained a meaningful advantage.

Maybe even consider making it a big distance - a metre or more. Let the linos get back to flagging as they see fit and just catch the ones where they've got it very badly wrong. Of course, you then get some players flagged offside who were onside, but that rarely caused as much controversy because generally the flag was up before the move developed, so you could never say for sure the player would have scored.
 


trueblue

trueblue

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
10,445
Hove
GloryDays said:
It was offside. If you know football you know it’s offside during the build up. Ppl reading way too much / making too much of this. That’s an offside and has been offside since the “daylight” ambiguity of the 90’s was over ruled. The unfair thing is letting it play on. A decent lino knows to flag. They’re told to keep them down now, but really it makes more of a drama out of it than it is. I’m surprised the players celebrated it so much knowing there was a very high chance of being ruled out.
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Not sure how you draw that conclusion. Were you the linesman and bang in line? The TV camera angle made it look slightly offside. The lines showed it was MUCH closer than even that seemed.

As for the players not celebrating... players of a Championship club who've come from 3 goals to down to 'win' an FA Cup semi-final in added time of extra-time... .well, if you really think they should have just stood around waiting for VAR, then you really don't get football.
 






Jimmy Grimble

Jimmy Grimble

Well-known member
Nov 10, 2007
9,783
Starting a revolution from my bed
Aside from the offside controversy, I would hope we’re having a look at Sheaf from Coventry. Looked a very composed ball-winner in midfield.
 


H

Hotchilidog

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2009
8,733
I think the offside rule has to be reviewed. In an age of technology the rule has gone from preventing a a forward player gaining advantage by positioning themselves ahead of the last defender, to let's hope they choose the right single frame (from a flowing move) from which to decide whether we should suck the life out of the game.

Regardless of whether yesterday's decision was "technically" correct or not, 10 years ago that would have been a goal and no-one would have batted an eyelid. Equally if the flag had gone up then we'd have got on with it. For me these offside decision the premise is always, how can we chalk off this goal, the benefit of any doubt always goes to the defending team. VAR is not perfect in this regard as we do not know for sure that the precise moment the ball leaves the passers foot is the frame that is actually chosen, and the line drawing process itself is sometimes flawed. A margin of error exists and yet it does not appear to be accounted for in the decision.

Just a technocratic joy-stealing use of the technology of the rules with no understanding of the spirit of the game.
 




Perfidious Albion

Perfidious Albion

Well-known member
Oct 25, 2011
6,058
At the end of my tether
Looking at the pic online, I doubt it is really offside. The Man U player who is the last defender has got his arm up a bit. The line is drawn from a higher angle against the player’s boots . I wonder if the view were taken at eye level you would put it at the Man U player’s hand which looks to be further than the Coventry players boot …?

Anyway, it is so marginal that it should never be called offside in a reasonable world.
 


B

Bodian

Well-known member
May 3, 2012
11,919
Cumbria
Perfidious Albion said:
Looking at the pic online, I doubt it is really offside. The Man U player who is the last defender has got his arm up a bit. The line is drawn from a higher angle against the player’s boots . I wonder if the view were taken at eye level you would put it at the Man U player’s hand which looks to be further than the Coventry players boot …?

Anyway, it is so marginal that it should never be called offside in a reasonable world.
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Hands don't count for offside purposes.
 






Normal Rob

Normal Rob

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2003
5,664
Somerset
1713778508154.png
 




B

Berty23

Well-known member
Jun 26, 2012
3,210
trueblue said:
To be decided and not easy - didn't say it was. Let's just propose without thinking much about it at all, 30cm from the second last defender. You're right, people will still moan because that's what people do. The difference is that they'd be arguing about a player being 30cm PLUS a toenail offside. It's a much easier argument to dismiss because whether or not the line is frame accurate, you're then talking about him/her being far enough offside to have gained a meaningful advantage.

Maybe even consider making it a big distance - a metre or more. Let the linos get back to flagging as they see fit and just catch the ones where they've got it very badly wrong. Of course, you then get some players flagged offside who were onside, but that rarely caused as much controversy because generally the flag was up before the move developed, so you could never say for sure the player would have scored.
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But when a goal is allowed that is clearly offside but another that is clearly offside plus a tiny bit then we will have the same issue.

The umpire’s call in cricket is getting moaned at more by the players. It is ridiculous when a ball clipping the stumps can be out while one hitting the stumps hard can be not out.

One big “umpire’s call” decision goes to a big club and we are back here.

If they trust the tech and it can be automated then use it. If not then scrap it, I think. Just let it decide.

My biggest issue with all this is when the ball is judged to have left the passer’s boot. I am not having the dunk goal earlier this season was framed when the ball had definitely left the passer’s boot.
 




pigmanovich

pigmanovich

Active member
Mar 16, 2024
163
London
One more anecdote from the match: I was seated next to a Utd supporter who spent the first 70 minutes smugly texting a City supporting friend about how well his side were doing and how they were certain to go on to win the cup. As Cov's goals went in, the chat got more and more heated, and when Cov appeared to get a fourth, he stood up and left and didn't return for the shootout :lolol:
 


Uncle Spielberg

Uncle Spielberg

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 6, 2003
42,835
Lancing
It was an abomination, travesty and a shocking decision. Var ruined the greatest ever fa cup comeback in history to gift United the final and get the Manchester final the fa and tv companies wanted all the time. We might as well give up. Football has been ruined by var and where was the advantage to the attacking team and in any case it was not offside. Such a shame and a massive error to destroy one of the greatest sporting events ever. We now have a final no one cares about outside the 2 clubs. I will be watching a repeat of only fools and horses
 


pb21

pb21

Well-known member
Apr 23, 2010
6,336
Maybe change the law so the lines are drawn at the furthest point from the goal for the attacker and the nearest for the defender?
 






G

GloryDays

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2011
1,618
Leyton, E10.
trueblue said:
Not sure how you draw that conclusion. Were you the linesman and bang in line? The TV camera angle made it look slightly offside. The lines showed it was MUCH closer than even that seemed.
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You aren't sure how I drew the conclusion that he was offside?

Var did it's job. It's a crying shame (evidently), very unfortunate and yes, it does sterilise football which is why football isn't very enjoyable any more, but it was the correct call. Thank the lord it wasn't a Brighton game or this place would have exploded. FWIW I really wanted Coventry to win and when it was being reviewed I really wanted to be wrong. Feel like it would have been such a perfect moment. I'm just saying that when that moment happened, given how we know the rules of football and offside to currently be, it had a massive chance of being ruled out. I wasn't close to it, not my team, but with the rose ****ed spectacles off, it's offside. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ .

Anyway, There's definitely a conversation about VAR and offside for sure. I read someone's previous post about the defenders proximity from the attacker, which is interesting, but potentially adding horizontal lines to consider how far they are from the attacker would be a nightmare. :ROFLMAO: I'm in favour of VAR for offsides, but IMO it needs to be near immediate, much quicker and stop play during the phase. If that whistle goes 1 second later (correct or not), we aren't defrauded of our emotional energy. In this case yesterday the whistle could have gone / flag up even 3-4 seconds after the pass before the ball is in the net. It takes some tech, but it would be possible.

Or just go back to the linesperson and their flag. It's interesting that sometimes even when var gets it right, ppl actually just want the wrong decision. Maybe it's not about the goal but how they felt at that time. Investing in to a moment and having it taken from them. A violation of our emotions, and one that isn't in the spirit of sport.

We currently have players running through on goal 5-10 yards offside and no one is flagging or stopping them and we have tackles and contact being made that doesn't need to happen. Just takes someone like Mason Holgate to end someones career, or pre-hamstring Lamptey to needlessly burst clear and all for a phase of play that shouldn't have even been allowed to pass.
 


A

Arthritic Toe

Well-known member
Nov 25, 2005
2,400
Swindon
This old debate again. Don't understand the arguments at all. If you wanted VAR, here it is. It has correctly identified that the player was offside. Just because we all wanted the Coventry goal to stand doesn't change the FACT that it was marginally offside.
 


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