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[Football] IFAB Keeper Timewasting Experiment



Guinness Boy

Guinness Boy

Tofu eating wokerati
Helpful Moderator
NSC Patron
Jul 23, 2003
34,263
Up and Coming Sunny Portslade
New rules to be trialled at junior level apparently to replace the never enforced six second rule.

Essentially:

  • 8 seconds to release always enforced.
  • Signalled ref countdown from 5 seconds.
  • Indirect free kick replaced with either a throw or corner to the other team.
  • Keeper warned on first offence then booking for each subsequent one.
The 8 seconds is to account for data IFAB collected where a keeper has been blocked from releasing or has no option - in those cases release is typically 6-8 seconds.



 










Guinness Boy

Guinness Boy

Tofu eating wokerati
Helpful Moderator
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Jul 23, 2003
34,263
Up and Coming Sunny Portslade
GT49er said:
What needs to be trialled? Just apply the f***ing rules!
Click to expand...
While I broadly agree the full Twitter thread explains in a bit more detail. Essentially:

1) Sometimes the exceeding of the 6 seconds is because the opposition prevent it
2) Indirect free kicks are not really a suitable punishment and 'hard to organise' (not my words) (hence trialling a throw in or corner instead)
3) Keepers 'game' it with unnecessary diving / falling and 'injuries'

In the new system refs will have to show them when they have 5 seconds left.

I'm not saying I agree with all of the above but it's what's in the full report I posted the link to.
 








Mellotron

Mellotron

I've asked for soup
Jul 2, 2008
31,867
Brighton
None of this explains why it doesn’t get enforced now when there are times the goalie clearly isn’t being impeded and is simply wasting time.

So often you’ll see them do it all game and take their yellow card happily in the 92nd minute.
 








Nobby Cybergoat

Nobby Cybergoat

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
7,059
I always think that with these (numerous) instances of refs giving up applying the rules, the fault lies with the referees assessors.

If I could get away with permanently taking the easiest route at work I probably would.

Refs should be made to apply the rules if they want a game next week
 




Mellotron

Mellotron

I've asked for soup
Jul 2, 2008
31,867
Brighton
Giraffe said:
Yep I don't get this at all. The rule is already there. If they are deciding six seconds is too quick and therefore not being enforced, fine make it 8 seconds, but just do it and enforce.
Click to expand...
Isn't that what is happening (hopefully)?
 


studio150

studio150

Well-known member
Jul 30, 2011
29,645
On the Border
keeper doesn't pick up ball and keeps it at his feet, waits for opposition forward to move towards him, when close picks up ball, and runs across area, wait for ref to start five second countdown, at one drops ball to feet, waits for forward to advance and only then plays balls to defender or up field.

I understand this is from the Villa coaching manual for next season, there is a variant to the above. In phase 1 when picks up ball, the keeper runs very close to the forward then falls over, and while keeping hold of the ball screams out in obvious pain, and demands physio assistance.

Outcome, the new rule changes nothing.
 


Nobby Cybergoat

Nobby Cybergoat

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
7,059
studio150 said:
keeper doesn't pick up ball and keeps it at his feet, waits for opposition forward to move towards him, when close picks up ball, and runs across area, wait for ref to start five second countdown, at one drops ball to feet, waits for forward to advance and only then plays balls to defender or up field.

I understand this is from the Villa coaching manual for next season, there is a variant to the above. In phase 1 when picks up ball, the keeper runs very close to the forward then falls over, and while keeping hold of the ball screams out in obvious pain, and demands physio assistance.

Outcome, the new rule changes nothing.
Click to expand...
They will be doing that.

They will also have Martinez, holding on for 30 seconds all the time arguing with the ref that a player 10 yards from him is preventing him playing the ball out.

They've probably already started the training drills for this. The gullible and lazy officials we have in this league will fall for it again and again
 






GT49er

GT49er

Well-known member
Feb 1, 2009
46,785
Gloucester
Guinness Boy said:
While I broadly agree the full Twitter thread explains in a bit more detail. Essentially:

1) Sometimes the exceeding of the 6 seconds is because the opposition prevent it
2) Indirect free kicks are not really a suitable punishment and 'hard to organise' (not my words) (hence trialling a throw in or corner instead)
3) Keepers 'game' it with unnecessary diving / falling and 'injuries'

In the new system refs will have to show them when they have 5 seconds left.

I'm not saying I agree with all of the above but it's what's in the full report I posted the link to.
Click to expand...
Agree that an indirect free kick that close to goal is probably a disproportionate advantage to the attacking side.
The 5 second count down idea is good - but when the keeper is unnecessarily lying down, presumably he will just claim to be injured, and you can't start counting until you are sure he is not injured. So perhaps some sanction is required when 20 seconds after seemingly being at death's door, he suddenly experiences a miracle cure.
 


Joey Jo Jo Jr. Shabadoo

Joey Jo Jo Jr. Shabadoo

Waxing chumps like candles since ‘75
Oct 4, 2003
11,123
Think the rules should also include something about opposition players having to leave the penalty area once the keeper has the ball under control in his hands. That would prevent players like Martinez at Villa using the excuse an opponent is preventing him from taking a kick.
 


A

albionalex

Well-known member
Feb 26, 2009
4,525
Toronto
studio150 said:
keeper doesn't pick up ball and keeps it at his feet, waits for opposition forward to move towards him, when close picks up ball, and runs across area, wait for ref to start five second countdown, at one drops ball to feet, waits for forward to advance and only then plays balls to defender or up field.

I understand this is from the Villa coaching manual for next season, there is a variant to the above. In phase 1 when picks up ball, the keeper runs very close to the forward then falls over, and while keeping hold of the ball screams out in obvious pain, and demands physio assistance.

Outcome, the new rule changes nothing.
Click to expand...

Of course it does, if applied correctly.
 






hans kraay fan club

hans kraay fan club

The voice of reason.
Helpful Moderator
Mar 16, 2005
61,379
Chandlers Ford
The timing of the countdown to release can only really come into play, once the keeper has full control of the ball. It won't start while EMI MARTINEZ (other keepers are available) is in the process of picking up a ball rolling softly towards him / clutching the ball to his chest, then diving forwards on top of it, to 'protect it / slowly looking up to scan around him for opposition players / slowly dragging himself to his feet (if by some miracle he has not picked up any INJURY in diving onto the ball).

It will still be more than possible for EMI MARTINEZ (or potentially a different keeper) to drag out collecting a ball and releasing it, to his usual 30-40 seconds, yet STILL remain within the 8 seconds signalled countdown.

In summary - the ref still needs to consider common sense / experience / match context, to assess whether the keeper is time wasting.
 


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