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[Politics] Donald Trump 2024



Zeberdi

Zeberdi

Brighton born & bred
NSC Patron
Oct 20, 2022
4,901
Springal said:
www.theguardian.com

Exclusive: Trump Media saved in 2022 by Russian-American under criminal investigation

Trump’s social media company went public relying partly on loans from trust managed by person of interest to prosecutors
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
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I think anyone asking the right questions years ago could have concluded the Trump Organization is one large cover for Trump’s money laundering operations with Russia through the Deutsche Bank:


Ever realise how Trump got the money to campaign for President first time round?

“Deutsche Bank loaned Trump some $2 billion — which helped pave the way for his political rise.”

A bank with secret billionaire clients that it fails to investigate properly if there are red flags of money laundering - a bank that Russians use to move money to the West; a bank that Trump and the Kushner family have used to transfer money to ‘interests’ in Russia:

( scroll down the Nrs cookies permission pop up)



Deutsche Bank faces action over $20bn Russian money-laundering scheme | Deutsche Bank | The Guardian

Exclusive: in confidential internal report seen by the Guardian, bank says scandal has hurt global brand
amp.theguardian.com amp.theguardian.com
 
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Triggaaar

Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
50,207
Goldstone
lasvegan said:
I didn’t mean it to be derogatory, just calling it as I see it.
Click to expand...

Could you post a link to your definition of socialist please, because calling people who don't support Trump socialists doesn't make sense.
 


Zeberdi

Zeberdi

Brighton born & bred
NSC Patron
Oct 20, 2022
4,901
Triggaaar said:
Could you post a link to your definition of socialist please, because calling people who don't support Trump socialists doesn't make sense.
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To make it easier, @lasvegan could refer to the table (which I posted earlier) and say which definition of socialism he embraces - because, yes, as you say, it seems to make no ideological sense to us in the UK at all, in calling anyone that doesn’t support Trump/Democrats, a ‘socialist‘. Then perhaps we could start to unpack why Lasvegan thinks the Dems are socialist by looking at what Democrat policies fulfil his criteria to earn such an epithet.

IMG_0967.jpeg


news.gallup.com

The Meaning of "Socialism" to Americans Today

Asked to define socialism, 24% of Americans mention "equality," while 17% say it is government ownership of the means of production.
news.gallup.com news.gallup.com
 
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Triggaaar

Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
50,207
Goldstone
Zeberdi said:
To make it easier, @lasvegan could refer to the table (which I posted earlier) and say which definition of socialism he embraces - because, yes, as you say, it seems to make no ideological sense to us in the UK at all, in calling anyone that doesn’t support Trump/Democrats, a ‘socialist‘.
Click to expand...

Correct definitions of socialism aren't limited to the UK. Right wing Americans use the term for anyone not as right wing as them, but it's not accurate either here or in the US.
 


Zeberdi

Zeberdi

Brighton born & bred
NSC Patron
Oct 20, 2022
4,901
Triggaaar said:
Correct definitions of socialism aren't limited to the UK. Right wing Americans use the term for anyone not as right wing as them, but it's not accurate either here or in the US.
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I think you meant ‘incorrect’.😉

And yes, that was the point of my original and subsequent posts - terms like ‘socialism’ and ‘fascism’ are often used as derogatory terms by those on opposing sides of the political spectrum with no reference to the ideology from which they spring - on both sides of the pond but they are also terms which have no agreed definition, unless you accept the Clause 4 definition - which has never been consolidated anywhere - all societies which have called themselves ‘socialist’ or have ’socialist‘ in the name are versions of watered down ’socialism’ - no society has ever been truly egalitarian and no society’s people have ever owned all the means of production.
 




Triggaaar

Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
50,207
Goldstone
Zeberdi said:
I think you meant ‘incorrect’.

And yes, that was the point of my original and subsequent posts - terms like ‘socialism’ and ‘fascism’ are often used as derogatory terms by those on opposing sides of the political spectrum with no reference to the ideology from which they spring - on both sides of the pond but they are also terms which have no agreed definition, unless you accept the Clause 4 definition - which has never been consolidated anywhere - all societies which have called themselves ‘socialist’ or have ’socialist‘ in the name are versions of watered down ’socialism’ - no society has ever been truly egalitarian and no society’s people have ever owned all the means of production.
Click to expand...

Joking or not, no, I meant 'correct'. Because while I accept that no society has been truly egalitarian, I do think the word is used correctly here - not so much as an attack by the right wing, but as a badge of honour for those who want a more equal society. eg. the Socialist Party. It may not be pure socialism, but it is meant in the correct sense, as opposed to a general attack on anyone who dares think we should help others in society, or tax the wealthy in any way.
 


Deportivo Seagull

Deportivo Seagull

I should coco
Jul 22, 2003
4,913
Mid Sussex
lasvegan said:
I will concede that calling @chickens a socialist as a little unfair. The point I was trying to make is that the Democrat Party is leaning towards totalitarianism, one party rule. Everyone can agree that they are are doing their best to imprison their main political opponent but they are now setting up a task force to ruin the third party candidate.

Click to expand...
You really are excellent entertainment value. Biden isn’t doing anything to lock up ClusterTrump, he’s managing to do that all on his little lonesome. As for JFK Jr …🤦‍♂️ makes MAGA supporters look relatively normal, granted the bar is set very low. You should actually be embarrassed by using Democrats and Totalitarianism in the same sentence. However ClusterTrump certainly is, as shown by his love of dictators. As I said embarrassing….
 


R

rippleman

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2011
4,580
Deportivo Seagull said:
You really are excellent entertainment value. Biden isn’t doing anything to lock up ClusterTrump, he’s managing to do that all on his little lonesome. As for JFK Jr …🤦‍♂️ makes MAGA supporters look relatively normal, granted the bar is set very low. You should actually be embarrassed by using Democrats and Totalitarianism in the same sentence. However ClusterTrump certainly is, as shown by his love of dictators. As I said embarrassing….
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Trump, in his own words, has said "I will be a dictator from day one" (if re-elected).

Surely that threat / promise tells you all you need to know about Trump's threat to democracy.



But he is only going to be a dictator for one day. Yeah. Right.
 




nwgull

nwgull

Well-known member
Jul 25, 2003
13,827
Manchester
Notice that BetFair now has Trump and Biden neck and neck at 2.34. Is Biden’s polling starting to improve?
 


Crawley Dingo

Crawley Dingo

Political thread tourist.
Mar 31, 2022
596
Zeberdi said:
Because half my family live in the States - because his Jan 6 attempt at interrupting the peaceful transition of power was a threat to the liberal democratic Country they live in. Because they are Jewish and don’t want to continue living in a Country where the President of that Country dog whistles to neo-Nazis and White Supremacists.

For all the reasons I bullet-pointed over the page as @Bodian says a post that you didn’t read btw because you were more interested in instructing me how to write posts on NSC at the time iir. 🙄

Now you - answer my question- why are you so supportive of a foreign ex-President and so vested in him getting back into power?
Click to expand...
Complicated to explain. ive had a long interest in "dark stuff", propaganda, cults etc. So I can see through all the BS, i already mentioned dog whistles are conspiracy theories/smears nothing else and Trump is pro-jewish but I'm going at a tangent. The democrats are using immigration to game the electral system backed up by an equally corrupt MSM, both these are the genuine threat to liberal Democracy.

The root of the problem is pathos, that infects out ruling classes so the establishment needs to be replaced. The first part of this is political realignment, this is where Trump moved the GOP to the left of the Democrats in economic politics not Social or cultural politics. This brings a whole new voting base into play more driven by Ethos. Been waiting for it for 15 years or more and doubted it would happen so Trump chose me not visa versa in a way. I'm not particularly ideological and i have no political home. The nearest would be something called the dark enlightenment.

If you had said 15 or more years ago I would be an avid supporter of Trump I would have laughed and called you crazy, but with hindsight it kind of make sense. Its not so much about political change its more about re-energising civilisation. Never been done, it may fail but I live in hope and its all coming to a head. Funny how things pan out.
 






B

Bodian

Well-known member
May 3, 2012
11,884
Cumbria
Crawley Dingo said:
Complicated to explain. ive had a long interest in "dark stuff", propaganda, cults etc. So I can see through all the BS, i already mentioned dog whistles are conspiracy theories/smears nothing else and Trump is pro-jewish but I'm going at a tangent. The democrats are using immigration to game the electral system backed up by an equally corrupt MSM, both these are the genuine threat to liberal Democracy.

The root of the problem is pathos, that infects out ruling classes so the establishment needs to be replaced. The first part of this is political realignment, this is where Trump moved the GOP to the left of the Democrats in economic politics not Social or cultural politics. This brings a whole new voting base into play more driven by Ethos. Been waiting for it for 15 years or more and doubted it would happen so Trump chose me not visa versa in a way. I'm not particularly ideological and i have no political home. The nearest would be something called the dark enlightenment.

If you had said 15 or more years ago I would be an avid supporter of Trump I would have laughed and called you crazy, but with hindsight it kind of make sense. Its not so much about political change its more about re-energising civilisation. Never been done, it may fail but I live in hope and its all coming to a head. Funny how things pan out.
Click to expand...
"The root of the problem is pathos, that infects out ruling classes so the establishment needs to be replaced."

As I understand it - Pathos is used to convince an audience to commit an action or accept an opinion by appealing to their emotions. Isn't this precisely what Trump does though, with all his 'lock then up', 'drain the swamp', and other such talk and appeals to base emotions?
 
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Curious Orange

Curious Orange

Punxsatawney Phil
Jul 5, 2003
9,964
On NSC for over two decades...
rippleman said:
Trump, in his own words, has said "I will be a dictator from day one" (if re-elected).

Surely that threat / promise tells you all you need to know about Trump's threat to democracy.



But he is only going to be a dictator for one day. Yeah. Right.
Click to expand...

Not quite, he said he'd be a dictator 'on day one', rather than 'from'.

The question is how much damage could he do in that one day?
 






M

marlowe

Well-known member
Dec 13, 2015
3,938
Another good day on the US stock market for Trump Media, down another 12%. today. Currently at $40.59.

On the first day it traded publicly on 26th March it surged to $79.38, so its down almost 50% from that figure in just over one week of trading 🤣
20240405_214030.jpg


Meanwhile the Trump Go Fund Me page is also having a good day.. In the last 24 hours its collected an impressive total of $210. If it maintains that daily rate it should be able to reach its $355million target in about 4,600 years

20240405_215422.jpg
 


B

Bodian

Well-known member
May 3, 2012
11,884
Cumbria
marlowe said:
Another good day on the US stock market for Trump Media, down another 12%. today. Currently at $40.59.

On the first day it traded publicly on 26th March it surged to $79.38, so its down almost 50% from that figure in just over one week of trading 🤣
View attachment 180001

Meanwhile the Trump Go Fund Me page is also having a good day.. In the last 24 hours its collected an impressive total of $210. If it maintains that daily rate it should be able to reach its $355million target in about 4,600 years

View attachment 180002
Click to expand...
But he won't personally actually lose any money. It will just be the mug investors who have bought shares who will be losing out. He'll still sell some of his shares for something - which will be more than he put in.
 




peterward

peterward

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Nov 11, 2009
11,370
Really interesting observations by Dr Tim Snyder, history professor at Yale and one of world's leading authorities on fascism.

There should be no illusions.

 






Zeberdi

Zeberdi

Brighton born & bred
NSC Patron
Oct 20, 2022
4,901
Crawley Dingo said:
Complicated to explain. ive had a long interest in "dark stuff", propaganda, cults etc. So I can see through all the BS, i already mentioned dog whistles are conspiracy theories/smears nothing else and Trump is pro-jewish but I'm going at a tangent. The democrats are using immigration to game the electral system backed up by an equally corrupt MSM, both these are the genuine threat to liberal Democracy.

The root of the problem is pathos, that infects out ruling classes so the establishment needs to be replaced. The first part of this is political realignment, this is where Trump moved the GOP to the left of the Democrats in economic politics not Social or cultural politics. This brings a whole new voting base into play more driven by Ethos. Been waiting for it for 15 years or more and doubted it would happen so Trump chose me not visa versa in a way. I'm not particularly ideological and i have no political home. The nearest would be something called the dark enlightenment.

If you had said 15 or more years ago I would be an avid supporter of Trump I would have laughed and called you crazy, but with hindsight it kind of make sense. Its not so much about political change its more about re-energising civilisation. Never been done, it may fail but I live in hope and its all coming to a head. Funny how things pan out.
Click to expand...
Thanks for taking the time to answer.

You lost me a bit on the ‘pathos’ and ‘dark enlightenment’ stuff - it sounds like something from Dungeons and Dragons or Harry Potter tbh but in so far as I can understand, yes, if what you are trying to say is that Trump’s popular support represents a societal change at a deeper level than simply a rotation of mainstream parties, then I agree but we differ deeply on your characterisation that it is a force of a benevolence .

The political ideology we see with the rise of Trump is comparable to Machiavelli’s idea that religion can help bolster power of political leaders whilst also being subjugated and moulded to the morality of government - It is ‘dark‘ because it redefines ‘religion‘ as a tool of a brand of Politics which has at it’s heart the over-riding imperative to seek power by any means necessary, including by (mis)appropriating in extreme form, traditional Christian values - Machiavellian, because it is a rise to power made possible by fraudulent claims, deceptive manipulation and/or by destroying (the reputation) of others. Political dominance is sought at any cost, including that to the liberal democratic institutions of the State.

Trump is the most partisan leader America has ever produced, is an anathema to international diplomacy because his power is dependent on perpetuating conflict and division - the yawning chasm in American society is something Trump exploits in his quest for power, not something he has any inclination to heal or even build a bridge over. Trump has nothing to offer beyond deconstructing power and rebuilding it in his own image and encouraging the despotism of the multitude - A very dangerous combination imo especially if its proponent is an emotionally stunted narcissist.

A revolution is never a desirable option where reform is suffice but a revolution with no ideology except to gain and hang onto to power for the sake of power is rotten and Machiavellian to its core.
 
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