I'm just trying to help you as you keep feeding that poster and yet seemingly don't understand why.Right
I'm just trying to help you as you keep feeding that poster and yet seemingly don't understand why.Right
Environmental protectionWhat was worse in the world when Trump was in power?
A restrained response (in terms of length) seeing that the question could easily warrant a book sized response!Environmental protection
- Trump’s withdrawal from the Paris Agreement - Without the United States, the rest of the world had a harder time meeting the Paris Agreement’s goal of preventing global temperatures from rising more than 2 degrees Celsius above pre-industrial levels. And the United States missed out on the creation of more jobs and economic growth as well as reduced business risks. While Covid and the renewables market blunted the impact in terms of emissions, Trump’s aggressive rolling back of environmental protection policies could still have lasting impact.
Relations with Iran -
- President Trump withdrew the United States from the deal in 2018, claiming it failed to curtail Iran’s missile program and regional influence. Iran began ignoring limitations on its nuclear program a year later. This has left the US isolated with no viable option for monitoring Iran’s programme of enrichment - Iran is closer to developing nuclear weapons now than it ever was and the reintroduction of harsh sanctions that were lifted when the JPCOA was agreed has inflammed tensions even further.
Any viable Peace Plan between Israel and Palestine
Worsened Security in Europe
- The proposal missed a signature feature of every prior peace plan: a path to a viable Palestinian state. It proposed dividing up the Palestinian territories and surrounding them by Israel, giving Israel total control over Palestinian security, handed a third of the West Bank over to Israel and moved the US Embassy to Jerusalem (an attempt to make that hotly contested city the de facto capital of Israel) - Trump‘s ‘Peace Plan’ destroyed any remaining hope that Israel will settle for the deal that peace processors have envisioned for a quarter century. Trump also colluded with Netanyahu, a far right wing Political leader, such that they both supported each other’s leadership, right wing policy positions/agendas, despite both being on corruption charges and likely facing criminal sanctions should they be voted out of power.
- Trump’s actions weakened Ukraine, divided NATO, emboldened Putin and helped get us to where we are today. And even with Trump no longer in office, his impact lives on in the form of Putin-friendly commentary in right wing media and from some Republican lawmakers. Within weeks, of Russia annexing Crimea (2014) Trump praised Putin and predicted that “the rest of Ukraine will fall … fairly quickly.” Echoing Kremlin propaganda, Trump said in a tv interview that the Crimean people “would rather be with Russia,” a position he pushed in private. One of his 2016 campaign aides falsely claimed that “Russia did not seize Crimea.”. Trump extorted Ukraine in 2019 to bolster his 2020 election campaign in an attempt to coerce Ukraine to provide ’dirt’ on Joe and Hunter Biden and evidence came to light of widespread corruption.
U.S. Exits Paris Climate Accord after Trump Stalls Global Warming Action for Four Years
State-level efforts and a growing renewables market have mitigated federal emissions policy rollbacks—but Trump’s climate impact could be long-lastingwww.scientificamerican.comWhat Is the Iran Nuclear Deal?
The United States’ withdrawal from the arms control agreement has heightened tensions and left the remaining signatories scrambling to keep the deal alive.www.cfr.orgTrump’s rejection of Paris Agreement is a call to action and resolve for us all
"U.S. President Donald Trump’s withdrawal from the Paris Agreement on climate change puts the United States at odds not just with the international community, but with overwhelming scientific evidence and the publicly expressed wishes of hundreds of American companies, from Apple to Exxon. U.S...www.iisd.orgTrump’s Israel-Palestine "peace plan" is a con
The proposal destroys the prospects for any real deal and brings Israel meaningfully closer to "apartheid."www.vox.comHere are the reasons for Trump's economic war with China
On Friday the US president ‘hereby ordered’ companies to halt business with China, among other attacks – how did we get here?www.theguardian.comLoading…
www.americanprogress.org
Perhaps I could refer you to my earlier post re. American definitions of ‘socialism’ and the table of definitions I posted - there really is a cross Atlantic divide I think in how we are defining these terms - the term can have very different meanings to different people, so much so, I am not even sure they are helpful any more. The terms ‘left’ and ‘right’ in American politics is also contextual. In fact, the right of political spectrum proponents will often just use the term ‘socialism’ as a derogatory term for anything left of their centre. We have never had a socialist society in the UK (as defined by Clause 4) of course, only political parties who are closer in policies to the ideology than others - so in practice, it is all a spectrum, the characterisation of which, very much influenced by where we ourselves stand on that spectrum.
The Republicans have some very fundamental Christian conservatives on the ‘right’ of the party conversely, the Dems have politicians on the left of the Party, who platform on what might be regarded as more ‘socialist’ on the spectrum eg. Bernie Saunders and AOC who both have a small but hardcore following in the Democratic party.
I would like to ask @lasvegan to define what he means by ‘socialism’ and accept that it might be a different definition to one you or I might have?
Yes, I totally see what you are saying and I get that but my point is more of a general one.Thanks Zeb, but while I accept that the meaning of words can evolve over time, and take on different meanings in certain settings, I don’t believe in allowing politicians who are effectively attempting to smear their opponents to completely redefine words and effectively get away with those smears.
The “when I said socialist, I meant someone with views different to my own” defence shall not stand.
You’ll note a complete absence of me describing @lasvegan as a fascist/nazi on here, and that’s because I don’t believe he’s either of those things. All I’m asking for is that we cut through the hyperbole and deal with the reality.
I could write more if you like - you know I couldA restrained response (in terms of length) seeing that the question could easily warrant a book sized response!
The point I was trying to make is that the Democrat Party is leaning towards totalitarianism, one party rule.
Everyone can agree that they are are doing their best to imprison their main political opponent.
I agree about the slurs. And I find @lasvegan interesting. I can myself construct a defense of voting for Trump based on perceived personal benefit. If that's his position, fine. But I start to sigh when the slurs start to appear. For example, Lasvegan claiming the Democrats want a one party state. What rubbish!Yes, I totally see what you are saying and I get that but my point is more of a general one.
I just wanted to highlight that Americans have redefined ‘socialism’ - there simply isn’t an homogeneous understanding of the term and it is more concrete than just ‘settings’ - maybe read the article I posted. Our ‘Clause 4’ understanding of ’socialism’ doesn’t even come into American discourse. Right wing American politicians as British ones, use ‘socialism’ as a general slur against any politician/party espousing left wing politics. The term ‘fascism’ has also been misappropriated as a derogatory term used by left wing ideologists to slur hard right politics. I’m just saying, these terms can be very undefined, redefined and unrefined in modern political debate and often have no relation to the root ideology from which they spring..
I did also note that you were called a ‘socialist’ in a deliberately derogatory manner by @lasvegan (for which he has admitted and qualified). Sorry if I didn’t recognise that insult to you in my response.
I’m merely pointing out that it is much easier to have a dialogue about political ideologies if both sides can at least have a common understanding on the fundamental terms being used - otherwise people simply end up shouting across a canyon and listening to their own echoes.
I think we are probably on the same page tbh.
Esp from a supporter of the President who incited an attempted coup and who's stated aim is to pardon all those who took part (after he's pardoned himself first, of course)This is a huge statement to make with no information to back it up.
Got to say I would need some convincing of this being true.
As someone else noted, we are a bit off topic, but whilst we are here....No it's not what we vote for.
We only vote for it when the Conservative government has shit the bed so badly we all crave a reset but don't have the stones to go all in Socialist.
It's where we are at now, where we were post Major and where we will be in 25 years time.
You first, why are you so invested in seeing a foreign presidential candidate removed by lawfare(Electoral interference.) when you don't live there?Perhaps a good start would be telling us why you are so vested in a Trump presidency (to the extent that you are) when you are not living in the US or are American - or are you?
I think @Zerberdi has answered that in post #2756 a couple of pages back where they listed many reasons why they didn't consider Trump was a good president for America or the World.You first, why are you so invested in seeing a foreign presidential candidate removed when you don't live there?
The highlighted bit is your subjective view, and unfair to include in one question - because if we try an answer the question as edited above, without removing the subjective bit - you could justifiably say that we had 'accepted' the lawfare point of view. Which I certainly haven't - and reading @Zeberdi 's posts - I don't think they have either.You first, why are you so invested in seeing a foreign presidential candidate removed by lawfare(Electoral interference.) when you don't live there?
Because half my family live in the States - because his Jan 6 attempt at interrupting the peaceful transition of power was a threat to the liberal democratic Country they live in. Because they are Jewish and don’t want to continue living in a Country where the President of that Country dog whistles to neo-Nazis and White Supremacists.You first, why are you so invested in seeing a foreign presidential candidate removed …when you don't live there?
I didn’t mean it to be derogatory, just calling it as I see it. People ARE socialist, communist, Marxist, authoritarian, totalitarian, or whatever you want to call it. It’s no more of a slur than calling me a capitalist.I did also note that you were called a ‘socialist’ in a deliberately derogatory manner by @lasvegan (for which he has admitted and qualified).
So you find me interesting, yet sigh…a little condescending maybe?I agree about the slurs. And I find @lasvegan interesting. I can myself construct a defense of voting for Trump based on perceived personal benefit. If that's his position, fine. But I start to sigh when the slurs start to appear. For example, Lasvegan claiming the Democrats want a one party state. What rubbish!
It's the slurs against Biden.So you find me interesting, yet sigh…a little condescending maybe?