[Football] Forest docked 4 points FFP

Pevenseagull said:

Probably wait until May 18th to decide how many points Man City have deducted.

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Green Cross Code Man said:

Agree in sentiment, but all we will be left with is the established big clubs along with no foreseeable way to break into the group. Chelsea only have a successful history in the last 20 odd years as they bought it with Russian tears. No-one else can now do that, buy success and earn a load of $$$ whilst picking up an army of (annoying) plastic fans who continue to help any profit the club may end up with, albeit not in their current kamikaze model. And that will probably sew up the top spots for the most part except for the odd and less frequent outlier like Leicester. So we may end up with a less and less competitive league.

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Beanstalk said:

They won't. It'll be a largely disappointing punishment and likely to not destabilise them in the long run but they will get punished. The PL charges aren't blighted with the loopholes that the UEFA case suffered from (mainly because of UEFA's stupid statute of limitations rules) - in my opinion UEFA would've likely won that case if they had more robust process in place.

The issue is, because of City's financial might, it's going to take ages. And when it is finally all over, it will likely mean that City will have had more than enough time to prepare for what is coming and be largely unaffected on the field - even if a points deduction stops them from winning a title for one season. It will likely, thanks to the ridiculous money that they have to spend, stop teams from cheating in the manner City are alleged to have cheated again. Which ultimately, is the point of PSR/FFP and to some extent, justice will have been served. Remember that we're talking about entirely different crimes here.

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Official Old Man said:

Full marks to TBMBE for keeping us legal, but just as an example, we purchased Harry Kane who then scored 30 goals and got us into the UCL.
We would have a season or more of European football, attract even better players and make lots of money.
Then, two years later, we get deducted 6 points.
This is just an example of the complete waste of time picking on the small club but waiting years to maybe hit the big clubs.

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Easy 10 said:

Predictably this whole sorry saga is drowning in a sea of whataboutery.

The wider point is that breaches of FFP/PSR is now finally showing some TEETH, with actual shock-horror points deductions instead of slap-on-the-wrist fines - and this is what is now driving the outrage. That, and the fact that it is relatively unprecedented. Well guess what - they are now setting the precedents that will help in setting future tariffs for clubs breaching the rules. The rules, I might add, that EVERY CLUB signed up to.

You could argue that the points deductions have been too lenient, given that Forest and Everton have narrowly swerved the guillotine at the expense of other clubs who cut their cloth, and went down as a result. And I'm annoyed at the appeals process cutting the punishment. But at least this is a start.

If you are going to take the piss with spending, then as everyone has seen, you will now reap the consequences. Its already in the post for Chelsea when their incredible splurge is due for review. City have arseholed up the whole process with their lawyers for years, but I live in hope that they'll meet their Waterloo at some point.

Meantime, I'm liking seeing consequences. Its a mess, but it needed doing.

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Giraffe said:

"Forest, who hired leading sports lawyer Nick de Marco to defend them, are thought to have based their case around the sale of Brennan Johnson to Tottenham Hotspur in September.

The move, worth more than £45m, took place after the accounting deadline but Forest argue selling Johnson at a later date allowed them to earn a higher fee than if they had sold him by 30 June."

So what? It's easy to use an isolated transfer as the reason they breached. They knew when the financial year end was they shouldn't have spent so much in the first place. If they wanted to spend they should have sold first. Pathetic attempt to justify it.

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um bongo molongo said:

I agree completely BUT was it asking too much for them to come up with a more robust and transparent punishment system, and to not have the appeal deadline 5 days AFTER the end of the season. I can’t really understand why they couldn’t do all of the reviews in the close season and allocate the points deductions before the start of the next season. But maybe that’s why I don’t get paid the £m’s to run the show

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oldboyroy said:

There was something on talk sport about city around 2 months back. Some geezer "in the know" with City's alleged 'crimes' and he said if they were found guilty the minimum they can expect is relegation! It was something along the lines of fraud?

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um bongo molongo said:

We’d soon knock that shooting first time and getting headers on target out of Kane. That’s not the Brighton way.

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Easy 10 said:

Predictably this whole sorry saga is drowning in a sea of whataboutery.

The wider point is that breaches of FFP/PSR is now finally showing some TEETH, with actual shock-horror points deductions instead of slap-on-the-wrist fines - and this is what is now driving the outrage. That, and the fact that it is relatively unprecedented. Well guess what - they are now setting the precedents that will help in setting future tariffs for clubs breaching the rules. The rules, I might add, that EVERY CLUB signed up to.

You could argue that the points deductions have been too lenient, given that Forest and Everton have narrowly swerved the guillotine at the expense of other clubs who cut their cloth, and went down as a result. And I'm annoyed at the appeals process cutting the punishment. But at least this is a start.

If you are going to take the piss with spending, then as everyone has seen, you will now reap the consequences. Its already in the post for Chelsea when their incredible splurge is due for review. City have arseholed up the whole process with their lawyers for years, but I live in hope that they'll meet their Waterloo at some point.

Meantime, I'm liking seeing consequences. Its a mess, but it needed doing.

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um bongo molongo said:

I agree completely BUT was it asking too much for them to come up with a more robust and transparent punishment system, and to not have the appeal deadline 5 days AFTER the end of the season. I can’t really understand why they couldn’t do all of the reviews in the close season and allocate the points deductions before the start of the next season. But maybe that’s why I don’t get paid the £m’s to run the show

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Easy 10 said:

I do see that argument - FFP/PSR does help protect the status quo. But whats the alternative. Unfettered spending for all ? History tells us that clubs WILL overreach to buy their way to success, sometimes with disastrous long-term consequences (or hilarious, in the case of Portsmouth).

Its a bit like the idea that has been floated to have an "Enhanced Games", ie an Olympics with no drugs testing. All the athletes can be shot up to the eyeballs in performance-enhancing drugs, and we just say to hell with it and see how it plays out. Sure it levels the field - but at what cost ?

I don't have the answers. There have always been haves and have-nots in the football pyramid, and there always will be. I think we're lucky insofar as we've grown over the last 25 years to reach where we are, and are more than capable of giving a bloody nose now and then to the "elite". There isn't a solution. But there needs to be rules IMO.

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drew said:

My view is that the points deductions for Everton (possibly with more to come) and Forest is laying the ground work for substantial sanctions against City and Chelsea that will of course be challenged but even if they are reduced after appeal, will be enough to relegate both or at least prevent them getting any where near Europe.

As an aside with all this talk of 'sporting integrity' being sacrificed with asterisks left right and centre on the table, why not relegate any club that would have gone down if it hadn't been for the points deductions along with clubs that fall into the bottom three because of the deductions. If that means 5 clubs go down then let 5 clubs come up. Shake it up a bit.

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Easy 10 said:

Its late and I've had some port. OK with the first, but I do not understand your second paragraph one iota chap.

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Easy 10 said:

Its really late and I've had some port. OK with the first, but I do not understand your second paragraph one iota chap.

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drew said:

In that case I'll explain. Let's say that Burnley, Sheffield and Luton occupy the three relegations spots before any points deductions are made. They are in that position on merit (or lack of it). Then apply the points deductions then it's Burnley at the bottom, then Forest, Everton Sheffield and Luton in 16th. My idea is to relegate all 5 and replace them with the top 4 in the championship and whoever wins the play-offs between 5th and 8th. However, if after the points deduction Everton or Forest are still outside the relegation zone they don't go down.

Hope that makes sense.

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Easy 10 said:

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