[Albion] Ansu Fati Signed On Loan 01/09

Taybha · Mar 17, 2024

Well I'd take him for 30-35 million if he was going to be sold, he's a kid who's naturally gifted and will go on to be a superstar,any good relationship we can build with him and Barcelona is very beneficial to us,and very much worth the punt.
I actually think it may well work in our favour he's not been the Wonderboy touted but a working progress and very much a player I'd love to have in the squad going forward.
Absolute baller but if anyone asks he's shite and should go to Leeds to make him a real player.

Hugo Rune · Mar 17, 2024

Zeberdi said:
Where he fits with us is a headache for RDZ not for me - but unless we have him as a permanent member of the squad, he won’t be replacing anyone. Even if we did offer to buy him at the end of the loan period, it would be with a view to deepening the squad - by definition, that involves more rotational play from everyone especially if we qualify for Europe again.

We won’t be signing him permanently because he’d surely not want to reduce his salary by £70kpw (or whatever astronomical sum Barca are paying him extra to our salary ceiling).

Don’t fear though.

This could be his replacement (for us, not Barca!).

Zeberdi · Mar 17, 2024

Hugo Rune said:
We won’t be signing him permanently because he’d surely not want to reduce his salary by £70kpw (or whatever astronomical sum Barca are paying him extra to our salary ceiling).

I agree that’s unlikely and certainly not on those terms - I said as much earlier ( and before on this thread too) but just responding to a few posters that think we might. There are rumours Barca might try and offer us a deal that involves Mitoma -there are rumours Man U might be interested - who knows - all smoke and mirrors at the moment.

As I said above, unless he he can get back his original pre-meniscus form, Barca may let him go for between £30-40 m to a big Premier League Club like Man U or Liverpool who could afford to pay closer to his expected wage structure or just negotiate another loan deal. He’s obviously not going to get up to the £90-120 level Barca wants with us - not just with 10 matches left and him recovering from an additional injury

DJ NOBO · Mar 17, 2024

Hugo Rune said:
We won’t be signing him permanently because he’d surely not want to reduce his salary by £70kpw (or whatever astronomical sum Barca are paying him extra to our salary ceiling).

If Barca dont play him that salary could be his undoing. Other clubs may not watch to match it so he would be looking at a succession of loans.
I watched him closely on Thursday and Sunday and he looked lost. Still time for him to turn it around here. It doesn’t help him that our more mobile forwards are out . The kid in me still believes but the evidence isn’t great

DJ NOBO · Mar 17, 2024

Zeberdi said:
I was responding specifically to this - more than just ‘unfavourable’ but writing him off basically …

So yes, it is a bit confusing why in that case you end your post that had been completely negative to that point with you saying you would be happy to sign him.

I just disagreed with your characterisation of Fati’s career ( both previously and the beginning of his loan with us) and am more optimistic that he won’t ‘fade into obscurity now’ but has a good chance still to rebuild his career.

I said happy to sign him if the money was right .
I think he’d be worth an affordable punt but not too keen on activating his release clause.
. If he restablishes himself as a top player good for him . Beyond his loan spell with us I don’t really care how his career pans out. While he is with us I hope he shows the magic of the past . I don’t remember ever being as excited at a signing . So far it’s been a big disappointment for one reason or another

Zeberdi · Mar 17, 2024

DJ NOBO said:
If Barca dont play him that salary could be his undoing. Other clubs may not watch to match it so he would be looking at a succession of loans.

It’s unlikely he will be going back to Barca, he has dropped too far down the pecking order to get his place back in the no10 position - they can’t afford to continue to pay his salary if he isn’t playing which is why he is on loan. He’s still on the same wage structure he was prior to getting injured - that is why it’s high. However, Barca will either sell him in the summer for less than his previous pre- injury value ( eg £30-45m) in which case a renegotiated salary will be made with the new club) or he will have a newly negotiated loan deal. Based on his performance this season, that is not likely to be one where the loan Club continues to pay 80-90% of his wages.

DJ NOBO said:
I said happy to sign him if the money was right .

As I said, we are not likely to sign him based on your assessment if as you suggest, that he is bound for ‘some random league’ and likely to ‘fade into obscurity’ - even if the price is ‘right’ - the player has to be too.

It is an assessment I happen to disagree with though.

Let’s just agree to disagree - we clearly have a different view of this young player

DJ NOBO · Mar 17, 2024

Zeberdi said:
It’s unlike he will be going back to Barca, he has dropped too far down the pecking order to get his place back in the no10 position - they can’t afford to continue to pay his salary if he isn’t playing which is why he is on loan. He’s still on the same wage structure he was prior to getting injured - that is why it’s high. However, Barca will either sell him in the summer for less than his previous pre- injury value ( ie £30-49m) in which case a renegotiated salary will be made with the new club) or he will have a newly negotiated loan deal. Based on his performance this season, that is not likely to be one where the loan Club continues to pay 80-90% of his wages.

If salary could be agreed how much would you pay for him?
£30m still feels like a lot but appreciate anything less is unrealistic.
Difficult one . It’s hard to know what quality of player you are buying

Jimmy Grimble · Mar 17, 2024

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
Good questions. With JP out why not try him as a centre forward? If his pace isn't recovered, drop him (where? where?)..... .

Tricky.

He could work as a centre forward but probably not with his back to goal, he hasn’t mastered using his body against defenders yet.

Zeberdi said:
It may well be Fati is a different player post-meniscus injury- his dribbling stats are lower as are his expected dribbles and expected assists but his xG and actual goals and assists are higher suggesting he’s becoming more of a finisher than a Mitoma-type dribbler. At Barca, he would cut inside from the wing, take on defenders and fire at goal with powerful precision ( rather like Messi in fact) but I always thought RDZ likes that aspect from his wingers - he often likes to overload the central attacking areas too. Buonanotte always drifted inside when he played in a no7 position too ( I think early last year I posted a heat map to show that he did that very frequently to support my view he was no10 playing in a No7 position). Conversely, RDZ use to complain March didn’t use to do it enough when he first arrived.

Where he fits with us is a headache for RDZ not for me - but unless we have him as a permanent member of the squad, he won’t be replacing anyone. Even if we did offer to buy him at the end of the loan period, it would be with a view to deepening the squad - by definition, that involves more rotational play from everyone especially if we qualify for Europe again.

To be honest, I don’t think he was signed on loan to be tied to any position, the priority was just getting him more play time than he was getting at Barca last season so he could continue to get over his injuries and gain back some lost confidence but he can play a more central role or continue provide cover on the wing imo - RDZ changes it up during matches anyway depending on the course of the game and who the opposition are. If you note Facu was moved out wide on Thursday at home to Roma because we wanted to stretch their defenders more and thin out that central area.

So what he was doing for Barca is what Mitoma did for us last year. Essentially either beat his man and cut inside to shoot/interplay, or go round the outside of a defender and cut the ball back. Unfortunately, like you say, since his meniscus injury he hasn’t shown he can do that particularly often anymore which isn’t ideal if he’s being used out wide.

I never said we signed him to play one position, but I’d be stunned if we didn’t sign him thinking he’d offer the skillset he’d shown at Barca and produce a similar level of performance to March or Mitoma out wide.

Buononatte went out wide right against Roma to accommodate Fati going through the middle.

It started as Fati - LW, Buononatte - AM/10, Adingra - RW

Fati wasn’t holding his wide position or taking on his man, so it changed to Adingra - LW, Fati - AM/10, Buononatte - RW

Husty · Mar 17, 2024

Taybha said:
Well I'd take him for 30-35 million if he was going to be sold, he's a kid who's naturally gifted and will go on to be a superstar,any good relationship we can build with him and Barcelona is very beneficial to us,and very much worth the punt.
I actually think it may well work in our favour he's not been the Wonderboy touted but a working progress and very much a player I'd love to have in the squad going forward.
Absolute baller but if anyone asks he's shite and should go to Leeds to make him a real player.

Superstar? Nah chance. There is some natural talent there undoubtedly but he is never going to be a world class player - he isn’t that fast and can’t beat a man. Also can’t finish. I’d take him but for a lot less than 30-35mil (plus big wages considering we know he’s on 160k a week…)

DJ NOBO · Mar 17, 2024

Zeberdi said:
Let’s just agree to disagree - we clearly have a different view of this young player

We were both excited by his signing.

We both acknowledge his form earlier in his career.

We are both , broadly speaking, underwhelmed by his loan spell.

We both hope he ends his loan spell on a high.

We are both open to the idea of him returning.

We disagree on where his career most likely goes from here, although it’s too soon for either of us to be right or wrong on that.

So we may have to agree to disagree that we disagree.

(This is a friendly post btw)

Zeberdi · Mar 17, 2024

Jimmy Grimble said:
I never said we signed him to play one position, but I’d be stunned if we didn’t sign him thinking he’d offer the skillset he’d shown at Barca and produce a similar level of performance to March or Mitoma out wide.

I know, I didn’t suggest you did

. He had been playing for Barca since his knee injury in 2020 and played at that level before he had a hamstring injury with us after the Europa group. So we did sign him on the basis of his skill set post knee injury at Barca which wasn’t enough to get him regular minutes at Barca and he wasn’t at Mitoma’s level either last season at Barca - he was still in recovery. The idea was that he would improve with us as the season went on with regular games. The hamstring has put paid to that so far but at least he’s back from that.

It remains a question of how his game needs to be adjusted (such as position preference) to accommodate any lingering injury weaknesses, including any chronic pain and risk of further injury. I ripped my ACLs almost in half about 20 years ago by twisting and falling on my knee and although I recovered, I was left with chronic pain and cartilage problems - I had the same type of accident on the same knee years later, tearing even more ACLs and chipping the cartilage - I didn’t have the benefit of sports physios, private surgeons and professional trainers so it had a permanent impact - both on my swimming, kneeling, cycling, distance walking and running - including daily chronic pain and now arthritis in it. These injuries even for top athletes can take several seasons to come back from - that’s without the failed surgeries and subsequent related hamstring injuries that Fati has had.

As for being ‘disappointed’, I do remember a few of us saying at they time when everyone was so exited to get him on loan, not to expect the 2019 Ansu Fati but one who was very much still coming back from major injury and no where near the level of a £90-120 million player he would have been by now if injury hadn’t stalled his career progression.

Jimmy Grimble · Mar 17, 2024

Zeberdi said:
I know, I didn’t suggest you did . He had been playing for Barca since his knee injury in 2020 and played at that level before he had a hamstring injury with us after the Europa group. So we did sign him on the basis of his skill set post knee injury at Barca which wasn’t enough to get him regular minutes at Barca and he wasn’t at Mitoma’s level either last season at Barca - he was still in recovery. The idea was that he would improve with us as the season went on with regular games. The hamstring has put paid to that so far but at least he’s back from that.

It remains a question of how his game needs to be adjusted (such as position preference) to accommodate any lingering injury weaknesses, including any chronic pain and risk of further injury. I ripped my ACLs almost in half about 20 years ago by twisting and falling on my knee and although I recovered, I was left with chronic pain and cartilage problems - I had the same type of accident on the same knee years later, tearing even more ACLs and chipping the cartilage - I didn’t have the benefit of sports physios, private surgeons and professional trainers so it had a permanent impact - both on my swimming, kneeling, cycling, distance walking and running - including daily chronic pain and now arthritis in it. These injuries even for top athletes can take several seasons to come back from - that’s without the failed surgeries and subsequent related hamstring injuries that Fati has had.

As for being ‘disappointed’, I do remember a few of us saying at they time when everyone was so exited to get him on loan, not to expect the 2019 Ansu Fati but one who was very much still coming back from major injury and no where near the level of a £90-120 million player he would have been by now if injury hadn’t stalled his career progression.

I disagree that he ever did play at that level before the hamstring injury. He was improving yes, but not March or Mitoma levels as a wide player.

I agree he needs to seriously consider what his body is going to allow him to do in terms of his future position. If he’s not able to trust it, he needs to focus on playing as a 10 with pace around him.

The trouble with this is world football appears to be littered with brilliant players in that role. Even at the Albion we have three potentially incredible players who can operate there, which is part the reason I’d be very surprised if we went back in for him next year. It would not be money well spent, unless in the next 10 games he regains confidence in his body and starts showing he can play out wide, which is ultimately what we need.

Zeberdi · Mar 17, 2024

Jimmy Grimble said:
I disagree that he ever did play at that level before the hamstring injury. He was improving yes, but not March or Mitoma levels as a wide player.

You misunderstood my post - sorry perhaps I wasn’t clear - I said after his knee injury at Barca, he continued playing for Barca last season but was not at the level as Mitoma - it was at that 2022/3 level that we got him - well below where he was at in 2019/20 and yes, not at Mitoma’s level (or March) when he arrived to us on loan but it was his potential for later in the season once he had rehabbed that interested us.

Edit - Have highlighted in bold the relevant part of my earlier post.

Eeyore · Mar 17, 2024

DJ NOBO said:
If salary could be agreed how much would you pay for him?
£30m still feels like a lot but appreciate anything less is unrealistic.
Difficult one . It’s hard to know what quality of player you are buying

He's a brilliant player, but clearly not right at the moment. There is no way we could afford to bring him in and no way he would take such a huge cut in wages to play for us.

Easy 10 · Mar 17, 2024

Just to say that if we signed Fati, using Mitoma as a counterweight, then I would be absolutely GUTTED

(and furious)

Change at Barnham · Mar 17, 2024

A) Do we wish to sign Ansu Fati?
B) Is there an affordable way of signing Ansu Fati?
C) Will RDZ stay at Brighton?
D) Would Ansu Fati considering signing permanently for Brighton?

The above four questions all need to be answered yes for Fati to stay. (to get 4 yes's is highly unlikely)

The future of RDZ will play a massive part in many player decisions over the summer.

Bodian · Mar 17, 2024

I blame whoever initially changed the thread title when we actually took him on loan . If only it had been 'Singed on Loan' as surely it should have been - then he would have turned out brilliant and the best player in the team.

Not Andy Naylor · Mar 18, 2024

He has shown so little for the amount we're paying that I can't say I'd want him even as a free transfer. Normally loan signings play brilliantly until the ink dries on a permanent contract, at which point they down tools and just collect the money. Fati has provided the occasional glimpse in Europe, when he thinks Bercelona might be watching, but otherwise? Nothing.

Commander · Mar 18, 2024

Not Andy Naylor said:
He has shown so little for the amount we're paying that I can't say I'd want him even as a free transfer. Normally loan signings play brilliantly until the ink dries on a permanent contract, at which point they down tools and just collect the money. Fati has provided the occasional glimpse in Europe, when he thinks Bercelona might be watching, but otherwise? Nothing.

Would you be saying that if he was a 'normal' 21 year old, do you think? He's scored a few decent goals for us and was starting to look very at home at this level before he got injured. If he had come through our academy I think we'd all be very excited about him. It's his history that makes him feel like a bit of a flop- he's a year younger than Adingra, for example.

I think he'd be a decent permanent addition if the numbers work. I just don't see how they can.

JBizzle · Mar 18, 2024

Commander said:
Would you be saying that if he was a 'normal' 21 year old, do you think? He's scored a few decent goals for us and was starting to look very at home at this level before he got injured. If he had come through our academy I think we'd all be very excited about him. It's his history that makes him feel like a bit of a flop- he's a year younger than Adingra, for example.

I think he'd be a decent permanent addition if the numbers work. I just don't see how they can.

I tend to agree. It's understandably swayed by a suggested £7m loan fee and £125k per week wages though. I doubt Adingra is on those kind of numbers...

In isolation though, he's a mildly inconsistent 21 year old, who was perfectly decent and improving until his injury. Since the injury, he's struggled to regain form, as has Estupinan, Enciso, Webster, etc etc

Got something to say or just want fewer pesky ads? Join us... 😊

[Albion] Ansu Fati **Signed On Loan 01/09**

Whalewhine

Well-known member

Brighton born & bred

Well-known member

Well-known member

Brighton born & bred

Well-known member

Well-known member

Mooderator

Well-known member

Brighton born & bred

Well-known member

Brighton born & bred

Colonel Hee-Haw of Queen's Park

Brain dead MUG SHEEP

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Share this page

[Albion] Ansu Fati Signed On Loan 01/09