bluenitsuj
Listen to me!!!
Compulsory for 1 year to teach the young entitled lazy generation a thing or two.
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[News] Should we Bring Back National Service?
- Thread starter Zeberdi
- Start date
Alwaysblue
New member
- Jul 19, 2018
- 23
And 1 year to teach the old entitled lazy generation a thing or two as well
Psychobilly freakout
HellBilly
Yes, but only for the baby boomers as they are the ones who have fecked everything up with their free love and hippy student days, to only then gain power as they got older and start wars all over the place….
that and after 60 your practically a waste of space, no one listens to you anymore and they smell
that and after 60 your practically a waste of space, no one listens to you anymore and they smell
Peacehaven Wild Kids
Well-known member
This is the parents job. If they choose not to do their job then it’s on them and them alone.
I’m not sending my teenage son to your boot camp as he isn’t entitled or lazy
um bongo molongo
Well-known member
Agree. But I also think we could make the Army a more attractive career choice, and make volunteering for the TA easier and more rewarding. But the ‘middle ground’ option doesn’t get headlines/traction in this social media age does it.
Justice
Dangerous Idiot
How long before the first national service scandal of abuse, bullying or racism hit the headlines. I would give it a month.
Justice
Dangerous Idiot
If it’s sold as a punishment no one will ever want to do it.
Basic NSC mistake. Expecting people to read what you have written, let alone understand what you have written, before offering their opinion.There are a number of poll options here and playing devils advocate:
Compulsory military service is just ONE suggestion in the poll - are people also against short term voluntary community schemes that offer a range of skills also?
If so, it can’t be on the basis we shouldn’t force young people to fight because the schemes are voluntary.
The British Army has relied on military based reservists for years but there are other community based options that other countries in the EU have piloted in recent years.
The majority of people polled by ukonward support some form of voluntary civic service - proponents suggest this engenders national pride and a desire to serve which would encourage recruitment in time of need:
Great British National Service
Great British National Service: How national service could develop skills, improve mental wellbeing, and increase a sense of belonging among Britain's youthwww.ukonward.com
I voted absolutely not. I see it, even voluntarily, with a cast iron guarantee that no volunteer would come to any harm, as the thin end of the wedge. It would soon be weaponized by those far to old to be eligible.
I can see the Daily Mail calling for that Begum woman to be brought home, signed up, and made to search for land mines, while the nation watch drone footage of her on a pay-to-view channel (coincidentally owned by the Harmsworth family - who knew?).
Edit: and I'm 65.
drew
Drew
Firstly, declaration that I'm old so it wouldn't affect me (cards on the table and all that).
I'm not quite sure how a voluntary community based scheme is of any benefit to the armed forces? What skills would you learn in the community that will benefit in the theatre of war.
I also don't see the benefit of it being voluntary community service because I can't see you getting any more people to commit to it than those that volunteer anyway. If you were going to do it should be compulsory. 6 months after finishing either sixth form or finishing your first degree. You could offer 6 months in one hit or two weeks a year for the next 13!
As for the military option, I believe this has been prompted by comments from Latvia. We are in a very different position as Russia isn't sitting on our doorstep and I guess Trump's recent comments may mean those countries in close proximity to Putin don't feel reassured that membership of Nato is all it's cracked up to be!!
I'm not quite sure how a voluntary community based scheme is of any benefit to the armed forces? What skills would you learn in the community that will benefit in the theatre of war.
I also don't see the benefit of it being voluntary community service because I can't see you getting any more people to commit to it than those that volunteer anyway. If you were going to do it should be compulsory. 6 months after finishing either sixth form or finishing your first degree. You could offer 6 months in one hit or two weeks a year for the next 13!
As for the military option, I believe this has been prompted by comments from Latvia. We are in a very different position as Russia isn't sitting on our doorstep and I guess Trump's recent comments may mean those countries in close proximity to Putin don't feel reassured that membership of Nato is all it's cracked up to be!!
Nobby Cybergoat
Well-known member
- Jul 19, 2021
- 7,062
Is this idea just some tabloid drivel idea for wealthy boomers to punch down on the young.
Many aging Express readers love to think of themselves as the wartime generation and bathe in their vicarious glory, but have been nowhere near a gun, or even a vaguely dangerous situation in their lives
Many aging Express readers love to think of themselves as the wartime generation and bathe in their vicarious glory, but have been nowhere near a gun, or even a vaguely dangerous situation in their lives
It’d be hard to take seriously any Government seeking to conscript a citizen soldiery which has simultaneously failed to take action to take key industries back from privatisation and usually into foreign ownership (railways, steel manufacture, weapons development, communications networks).
You can’t cosplay as Churchill with conscription without also rolling back Thatcherism.
You can’t cosplay as Churchill with conscription without also rolling back Thatcherism.
The Grockle
Formally Croydon Seagull
I think if there was a major conflict that required drafts they'd be enough volunteers to double our military size.
Much is made of the size of our Army compared to our allies and potential enemies but I feel the British army is more about quality over quantity. Russia have shown that having one of the largest armies doesn't necessarily mean you'll be effective on the battlefield. Poor training, low morale, antiquated weaponry and poor military infrastructure has exposed them in their invasion of Ukraine.
Much is made of the size of our Army compared to our allies and potential enemies but I feel the British army is more about quality over quantity. Russia have shown that having one of the largest armies doesn't necessarily mean you'll be effective on the battlefield. Poor training, low morale, antiquated weaponry and poor military infrastructure has exposed them in their invasion of Ukraine.
- Oct 20, 2022
- 4,908
- Thread starter
- #35
Some really valid points there.
Just on the skills though - training in firearms, hand to hand combat, orienteering, fitness, survival skills all are useful and could be tought in community settings without someone having to join the army.
It’s not just the UK where this debate is happening- Sweden introduced a new form of national service recently.
‘It might as well be me’: young Swedes prepare for new form of national service
Historically neutral Sweden prioritises civil defence amid concerns of preparing for possible war
www.theguardian.com
My concern would be if compulsory conscription ever came in, those who had completed a voluntary national/civic service scheme might be the first to be called up after the Army Reservists.
Once the genie is out of the box, there will be a clamour from the usual quarters to change it.True re. NSC - most people do seem to have jumped straight in with their own interpretation of ’some form‘ of national/civic service as compulsory - if only to allow it to be promptly ruled it out without considering alternatives
I’m interested to know how you think a volunteer service could be weaponised though - a volunteer service certainly couldn’t force making terrorists search for landmines (the whole point of a community based voluntary service is that it would be for the service of people living in the UK and participation would be voluntary - unless any participation in voluntary scheme was used as a punishment but we already have Community Service in the criminal justice system for that.
Much the same way, with voluntary euthanasia there would soon be a clamour from some quarters to make it compulsory (i.e., when the sick person can no longer make decisions for themselves.....someone else does it!).
And indeed very much the same with capital punishment.
Anything clamourizable will spawn weaponizers. Labour don't want to extend national service to make it compulsory for unemployed asylum seekers? Shame on them! Labour hates our country, don'ch know?
And the death penalty? Labour doesn't want the black mugger hanged? Shame on them. Labour hates ordinary white people, don'cha know?
To rewind....if it is voluntary and paid it isn't 'national service'. It's a job. And one that already exists.
Absolutely not. Some people make horrible soldiers, conscript armies generally are just cannon fodder.
Fund the existing forces better and bring back a pride in service instead.
Fund the existing forces better and bring back a pride in service instead.
This.
Somethingdean
Active member
- May 18, 2019
- 77
Yes. It should be compulsory. If there is a war, it is the job of the younger generation who are more able-bodied to defend our land. There can be no objections. I know the soy latte generation find the concept of self-sacrifice completely alien but it is a pertinent one. Remember the reason we are typing these words in English today is because of the brave heroes in the 1940s.
One assumes you have absolved your dear self from lifting a finger owing to your advanced years.
In which case......it's not your shout, is it?