[News] World’s happiest countries

Live by the sea · Mar 22, 2023

Swansman said:
Who attacked who really?

A decision was made, primarly by the British in cooperation with the Zionists, that Jews should be given a country in Palestine, pretty much on the basis that "well, they were there first". This is similar as if China (or some other far-away country) today would make a decision that about half of England should belong to Spain & Portugal and be inhabited by people from Spain and Portugal, because they were likely to have been the first in the UK.

If people in England would have thought "umm no I don't lie that" and defended themselves from the Spanish and Portuguese taking over what they had been awarded, with the Spanish and Portuguese then successfully not only defending the borders they had been given by China, but also expanding to taking two thirds of the country instead of just half - would you sit here and defend the Spanish/Portuguese right to do so? Would you even consider this Iberian takeover rightful in the first place? Would you consider the situation as you attacking Spain & Portugal or Spain & Portugal attacking you?

It’s not even worth replying to your post because it’s so factually incorrect .

You keep with your mantra that Israel is the root of all evil as it clearly makes you happy , however shamefully unbalanced your views are to most fair minded people .

Sepulveda · Mar 22, 2023

jakarta · Mar 22, 2023

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
Golan.

But you're right. I visited there 30 years ago and was shown around. There was an abandoned tank and other detritus. Before the Israelis pushed the border back a bit, the Syrians used to use the vantage point to take casual pot shots at the Israeli settlements. I have seen it with my own eyes.

Israel is surrounded by nations that would be happy to push the Jews into the sea. Taking decisive action, pre-emptive if necessary, is unavoidable.

I have had endless arguments with one of my brothers about the Palestine 'situation'. It is easy for me to see how he can conflate Israel with Jews and with human rights abuses, but this is a mistake, pure and simple. My experience is that Israel is a modern liberal nation, and there are plenty of Arabs living freely in the country.

Here is Berem Kayal's take: "I'm Arabic. Sometimes people on the outside can't understand the bigger picture. They ask how Jewish and Arabic people can live together. But, it's fine, I lived [in Israel] and I enjoyed it and I get on with the people there. I have friends who are Jewish. It shouldn't really matter in sports about Arabs or Jews. If someone says 'Beram Kayal is an Arab player' then that is enough for me".

Unfortunately and unsurprisingly I have no solution to the plight of the Palestinians.

It very certainly doesn't help that Israel keeps electing right wing bastards like Bibi (and assassinating decent left of centre pro-peace politicians like Rabin), and that America does nothing to work against the excesses of the Likud coalitions. Beware the ruthless antidemocratic instinct of right wing zealots. And we have conspicuous examples of these in our present government.

Went to Israel around 15 years ago with Mrs Jakarta on a WSCC Education sponsored trip for those Teachers who would be doing Religious Education or Head Teachers Supervising RE (Mrs J). Fascinating country which is clearly 1st world while being surrounded by 3rd world countries who absolutely want to destroy it.

This won't happen while the USA has a large and powerful Jewish vote and in addition are happy to have them there as a strategic ally. I suspect while Israel could roll over most of their neighbours from a military point of view, they are happy to watch them stagnate even further. Was strange to see uniformed teenage girls wielding Uzi's as well as been overflown by F-16's every hour or so!

Happy to have seen all the religious sites, especially Jerusalem but have no intention of going back. Got lumps of concrete luzzed at us by local Palestinian yoof when we went down to the Wailing Wall before breakfast one morning, they clearly start early over there...

Harry Wilson's tackle · Mar 22, 2023

Swansman said:
Who attacked who really?

A decision was made, primarly by the British in cooperation with the Zionists, that Jews should be given a country in Palestine, pretty much on the basis that "well, they were there first". This is similar as if China (or some other far-away country) today would make a decision that about half of England should belong to Spain & Portugal and be inhabited by people from Spain and Portugal, because they were likely to have been the first in the UK.

If people in England would have thought "umm no I don't lie that" and defended themselves from the Spanish and Portuguese taking over what they had been awarded, with the Spanish and Portuguese then successfully not only defending the borders they had been given by China, but also expanding to taking two thirds of the country instead of just half - would you sit here and defend the Spanish/Portuguese right to do so? Would you even consider this Iberian takeover rightful in the first place? Would you consider the situation as you attacking Spain & Portugal or Spain & Portugal attacking you?

I agree that the original idea to ship the diaspora back to a land long since occupied by others, without any discussion with the others, was wrong.

Nearly 90 years later, however, we are where we are. We can't simply throw the Jews into the sea (which is what the Palestinians want, and which has tacitly been encouraged by Syria, and more noisily (because, from a greater distance, it is easier to sound big and tough) by Iran, and actively (with Scuds) by Saddam's Iraq). But pressure should be brought to bear to give the Palestinians a homeland somewhere. There seems to be an enormous amount of spare land in Rwanda. No, hang on, that wouldn't be fair.

What about somewhere in Palestine (as it once was)? Unfortunately the issue has become weaponized with decades of tit for tat bombings, shelling and urban atrocities.

The only solution I suspect will involve America forcing Israel's hand while pressuring the Palestinians to not stab, shoot or shell the Israelis at every available opportunity. The latter have had no hope of 'winning', ever, so I can understand them thinking the only useful thing they can hope to achieve is to kill some jews. So the Palestinians must be shown there can be some hope.

Instead we have stalemate and no hope at all for any sort of solution, and the Israelis will simply contain the Palestinians, build more massive barricades and walls (is this where Trump got his Mexico plan from?), and hold up every incursion and attack from Gaza as justification. And America says 'we agree'. And the surrounding Arab nations do nothing because, frankly, the Syrians and Iranian's don't really care about the Palestinians any more than the Israelis do. As for Jordan - they have been secretly trading with Israel for decades. Israel have helped them with hydroelectric engineerng and goodness knows what else. These Arab nations like to pay lipservice to anti Israel sentiment from time to time, but this is largely for domestic consumption and a bit of playing to the gallery.

No, for decades and for now the Palestinians are f***ed. Perhaps if they bin Hamas (see what I did, there?) and 'surrender' then America (with sheep like the UK following) may say 'now is the time to sort this out', but every little shot, bomb and missile from Gaza helps perpetuate the lazy status quo, cementing the bad guys (Likud) in power.....and on and on it goes.

Other analyses and solutions are available.

Live by the sea · Mar 22, 2023

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
I agree that the original idea to ship the diaspora back to a land long since occupied by others, without any discussion with the others, was wrong.

Nearly 90 years later, however, we are where we are. We can't simply throw the Jews into the sea (which is what the Palestinians want, and which has tacitly been encouraged by Syria, and more noisily (because, from a greater distance, it is easier to sound big and tough) by Iran, and actively (with Scuds) by Saddam's Iraq). But pressure should be brought to bear to give the Palestinians a homeland somewhere. There seems to be an enormous amount of spare land in Rwanda. No, hang on, that wouldn't be fair.

What about somewhere in Palestine (as it once was)? Unfortunately the issue has become weaponized with decades of tit for tat bombings, shelling and urban atrocities.

The only solution I suspect will involve America forcing Israel's hand while pressuring the Palestinians to not stab, shoot or shell the Israelis at every available opportunity. The latter have had no hope of 'winning', ever, so I can understand them thinking the only useful thing they can hope to achieve is to kill some jews. So the Palestinians must be shown there can be some hope.

Instead we have stalemate and no hope at all for any sort of solution, and the Israelis will simply contain the Palestinians, build more massive barricades and walls (is this where Trump got his Mexico plan from?), and hold up every incursion and attack from Gaza as justification. And America says 'we agree'. And the surrounding Arab nations do nothing because, frankly, the Syrians and Iranian's don't really care about the Palestinians any more than the Israelis do. As for Jordan - they have been secretly trading with Israel for decades. Israel have helped them with hydroelectric engineerng and goodness knows what else. These Arab nations like to pay lipservice to anti Israel sentiment from time to time, but this is largely for domestic consumption and a bit of playing to the gallery.

No, for decades and for now the Palestinians are f***ed. Perhaps if they bin Hamas (see what I did, there?) and 'surrender' then America (with sheep like the UK following) may say 'now is the time to sort this out', but every little shot, bomb and missile from Gaza helps perpetuate the lazy status quo, cementing the bad guys (Likud) in power.....and on and on it goes.

Other analyses and solutions are available.

That’s a very good summary .

Live by the sea · Mar 22, 2023

Just a reminder to mainly westdene seagull that this thread is meant to be about the happiest countries in the world as voted by their populations not a snide attack on one of the countries on the happiest list because it doesn’t fit your agenda !

jakarta · Mar 22, 2023

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
I agree that the original idea to ship the diaspora back to a land long since occupied by others, without any discussion with the others, was wrong.

Nearly 90 years later, however, we are where we are. We can't simply throw the Jews into the sea (which is what the Palestinians want, and which has tacitly been encouraged by Syria, and more noisily (because, from a greater distance, it is easier to sound big and tough) by Iran, and actively (with Scuds) by Saddam's Iraq). But pressure should be brought to bear to give the Palestinians a homeland somewhere. There seems to be an enormous amount of spare land in Rwanda. No, hang on, that wouldn't be fair.

What about somewhere in Palestine (as it once was)? Unfortunately the issue has become weaponized with decades of tit for tat bombings, shelling and urban atrocities.

The only solution I suspect will involve America forcing Israel's hand while pressuring the Palestinians to not stab, shoot or shell the Israelis at every available opportunity. The latter have had no hope of 'winning', ever, so I can understand them thinking the only useful thing they can hope to achieve is to kill some jews. So the Palestinians must be shown there can be some hope.

Instead we have stalemate and no hope at all for any sort of solution, and the Israelis will simply contain the Palestinians, build more massive barricades and walls (is this where Trump got his Mexico plan from?), and hold up every incursion and attack from Gaza as justification. And America says 'we agree'. And the surrounding Arab nations do nothing because, frankly, the Syrians and Iranian's don't really care about the Palestinians any more than the Israelis do. As for Jordan - they have been secretly trading with Israel for decades. Israel have helped them with hydroelectric engineerng and goodness knows what else. These Arab nations like to pay lipservice to anti Israel sentiment from time to time, but this is largely for domestic consumption and a bit of playing to the gallery.

No, for decades and for now the Palestinians are f***ed. Perhaps if they bin Hamas (see what I did, there?) and 'surrender' then America (with sheep like the UK following) may say 'now is the time to sort this out', but every little shot, bomb and missile from Gaza helps perpetuate the lazy status quo, cementing the bad guys (Likud) in power.....and on and on it goes.

Other analyses and solutions are available.

The difference in capability between both sides was shown when we did a minibus trip down to Jericho (West Bank Palestinian) from Jerusalem one morning. We all dutifully filed through the Israeli checkpoint (purpose built building, air conditioned, coffee machine available) to have our ID checked by smart (although tooled up) Israeli Military.

We then drove 100 yards or so to the Palestinian checkpoint. This consisted of a concrete filled oil drum manned by a teenager with an AK47. The driver showed him our paperwork and there was a brief discussion where it became apparent he was illiterate. A few dollars later we were on our way.

As I say 1st World living next door to 3rd World. Jericho was a dump BTW.

PeterT · Mar 22, 2023

Swansman said:
Who attacked who really?

A decision was made, primarly by the British in cooperation with the Zionists, that Jews should be given a country in Palestine, pretty much on the basis that "well, they were there first". This is similar as if China (or some other far-away country) today would make a decision that about half of England should belong to Spain & Portugal and be inhabited by people from Spain and Portugal, because they were likely to have been the first in the UK.

If people in England would have thought "umm no I don't lie that" and defended themselves from the Spanish and Portuguese taking over what they had been awarded, with the Spanish and Portuguese then successfully not only defending the borders they had been given by China, but also expanding to taking two thirds of the country instead of just half - would you sit here and defend the Spanish/Portuguese right to do so? Would you even consider this Iberian takeover rightful in the first place? Would you consider the situation as you attacking Spain & Portugal or Spain & Portugal attacking you?

Too many ifs and buts in that scenario.

Borders and territories are complex, always will be. Geography is important but so is history. You can’t just erase or re-write it, most of the time there is no simple answer to such complexities without risking a lot of unnecessary bloodshed.

Harry Wilson's tackle · Mar 22, 2023

jakarta said:
The difference in capability between both sides was shown when we did a minibus trip down to Jericho (West Bank Palestinian) from Jerusalem one morning. We all dutifully filed through the Israeli checkpoint (purpose built building, air conditioned, coffee machine available) to have our ID checked by smart (although tooled up) Israeli Military.

We then drove a 100 yards or so to the Palestinian checkpoint. This consisted of a concrete filled oil drum manned by a teenager with an AK47. The driver showed him our paperwork and there was a brief discussion where it became apparent he was illiterate. A few dollars later we were on our way.

As I say 1st World living next door to 3rd World. Jericho was a dump BTW.

I was charged £100 for a 2 minute taxi ride (talked it down to £20) by a Palestinian taxi driver (the only taxi drivers working on the Sabbath). My hotel called the police.

And yet....I was driving through Jerusalem with a colleague who pointed at some Jewish blokes with ringlets and black clothes and said 'they are a worse problem for this country than the Palestinians'. I was a bit taken aback as my colleague is a Jew (he did his national service in Mossad, too, very handy when he whisked me through security at Tel Aviv airport).

I have told my middle brother about all this and he got so angry one time, when he was on an anti Israel rant, that he slammed the phone down on me. He was very Corbynny at the time :facepalm:

Black and white, these things are not. But there will be no progress until the influencers (primarily the US) shift from their positions of intransigence. Oh, and Israel vote out Likud. I'd love to see Bibi sharing a jail cell with 'OJ' Johnson.

jakarta · Mar 22, 2023

Anyway, this has got a long way from which country you would be happiest in.

Having done a fair few countries and every continent I can safely say New Zealand, probably Northern Island on the coast somewhere.

Photo finish between Northern Italy (Lakes) and Western Canada (Vancouver etc.) for 2nd and 3rd.

All prosperous, clean and civilised, at my age that is what I want.

PeterT · Mar 22, 2023

jakarta said:
Went to Israel around 15 years ago with Mrs Jakarta on a WSCC Education sponsored trip for those Teachers who would be doing Religious Education or Head Teachers Supervising RE (Mrs J). Fascinating country which is clearly 1st world while being surrounded by 3rd world countries who absolutely want to destroy it.

This won't happen while the USA has a large and powerful Jewish vote and in addition are happy to have them there as a strategic ally. I suspect while Israel could roll over most of their neighbours from a military point of view, they are happy to watch them stagnate even further. Was strange to see uniformed teenage girls wielding Uzi's as well as been overflown by F-16's every hour or so!

Happy to have seen all the religious sites, especially Jerusalem but have no intention of going back. Got lumps of concrete luzzed at us by local Palestinian yoof when we went down to the Wailing Wall before breakfast one morning, they clearly start early over there...

I went to Israel for 10 days in 2019 and enjoyed the trip immensely.

I've been to Lebanon, Jordan and Egypt too. It’s a fascinating region but not the place to go to kick back and relax. Israel does have a certain feel about it that is quite exhilarating - I was pre-warned that I might find it hard work and the people quite intense but I didn’t really find it that way at all.

Going to the West Bank was probably the part I enjoyed the least, the contrast was extreme, but I would definitely go back there in the future.

herecomesaregular · Mar 22, 2023

goldstone said:
I have no desire to help people who do nothing to help themselves and there are far far too many of them. I have no desire to help families with five or six kids who then live off benefits.

You do realise that benefits are not really the problem? Because of my work, paid and voluntary, I know a lot of people on benefits, some quite large amounts. It's a fact, in this small sample, that all that benefit money goes back into the economy (food, fags or ecigs, taxis, charity shops etc). None of them have savings, each month it all goes back into the circular economy. It's those that spend all their efforts to avoid paying tax (individuals and large corporations), save and sit in their castles counting their money and paranoid about the poor taking it that are more of the problem. Imho.

BadFish · Mar 22, 2023

Live by the sea said:
It’s not even worth replying to your post because it’s so factually incorrect .

You keep with your mantra that Israel is the root of all evil as it clearly makes you happy , however shamefully unbalanced your views are to most fair minded people .

Very wise, Yoda is.

PeterT · Mar 22, 2023

jakarta said:
Anyway, this has got a long way from which country you would be happiest in.

Having done a fair few countries and every continent I can safely say New Zealand, probably Northern Island on the coast somewhere.

Photo finish between Northern Italy (Lakes) and Western Canada (Vancouver etc.) for 2nd and 3rd.

All prosperous, clean and civilised, at my age that is what I want.

You just need to be far enough away from the super volcano under Lake Taupo, which is stirring again I read recently, as that has the potential to blow good chunk of the North Island to smithereens!

I have had 3 long-ish trips to NZ. I must say I couldn’t get used to walking around even the bigger towns or cities on a Saturday afternoon and finding everything closed for the weekend and tumbleweed wafting past me. To be fair, I haven’t been there for 20 years so it may have changed.

I played cricket in Auckland for a while for a club side but for sure I wouldn’t want to play rugby there. The cricket club was aligned with a rugby club. I have never seen such enormous guys in my life. One of those running at me with a ball would have had me running for cover, a bit like England did against Jonah Lomu in 1995!

1066familyman · Mar 22, 2023

TWOCHOICEStom said:
The summer's make up for it IMO.

If you enjoy being woken by the sound of your neighbour mowing their lawn at 3am :wink:

Machiavelli · Mar 22, 2023

Live by the sea said:
Shady regime’s slur is a little unfair, Israel’s closest allies include Australia, America , England , Germany , Italy , India , New Zealand , Spain . Most shady countries are not especially friendly towards Israel because of its close relationship with America and the west .

I was referring to its security industry and its exports. I think you are referring to the Israeli state.

BadFish · Mar 22, 2023

Harry Wilson's tackle said:
I agree that the original idea to ship the diaspora back to a land long since occupied by others, without any discussion with the others, was wrong.

Nearly 90 years later, however, we are where we are. We can't simply throw the Jews into the sea (which is what the Palestinians want, and which has tacitly been encouraged by Syria, and more noisily (because, from a greater distance, it is easier to sound big and tough) by Iran, and actively (with Scuds) by Saddam's Iraq). But pressure should be brought to bear to give the Palestinians a homeland somewhere. There seems to be an enormous amount of spare land in Rwanda. No, hang on, that wouldn't be fair.

What about somewhere in Palestine (as it once was)? Unfortunately the issue has become weaponized with decades of tit for tat bombings, shelling and urban atrocities.

The only solution I suspect will involve America forcing Israel's hand while pressuring the Palestinians to not stab, shoot or shell the Israelis at every available opportunity. The latter have had no hope of 'winning', ever, so I can understand them thinking the only useful thing they can hope to achieve is to kill some jews. So the Palestinians must be shown there can be some hope.

Instead we have stalemate and no hope at all for any sort of solution, and the Israelis will simply contain the Palestinians, build more massive barricades and walls (is this where Trump got his Mexico plan from?), and hold up every incursion and attack from Gaza as justification. And America says 'we agree'. And the surrounding Arab nations do nothing because, frankly, the Syrians and Iranian's don't really care about the Palestinians any more than the Israelis do. As for Jordan - they have been secretly trading with Israel for decades. Israel have helped them with hydroelectric engineerng and goodness knows what else. These Arab nations like to pay lipservice to anti Israel sentiment from time to time, but this is largely for domestic consumption and a bit of playing to the gallery.

No, for decades and for now the Palestinians are f***ed. Perhaps if they bin Hamas (see what I did, there?) and 'surrender' then America (with sheep like the UK following) may say 'now is the time to sort this out', but every little shot, bomb and missile from Gaza helps perpetuate the lazy status quo, cementing the bad guys (Likud) in power.....and on and on it goes.

Other analyses and solutions are available.

There was land for the Palestinians in an agreement from the 40s (from memory I could be wrong) but that land has been taken over time and if I remember correctly the remaining Palestinian lands are blocked of power and water.

However the situation is not going to be resolved through the mechanism of who is to blame more for what has been going on for so many years.

The sad fact of the matter is that their is little appetite from those who have power on each side to end the hostilities. The extreme factions of Hamas etc keep on fighting and the extreme governments of Israel take measures to ensure no softening of policy. All the while the people (mainly the Palestinians, let's face it) suffer the consequences.

All started by short sighted policy years ago.

Harry Wilson's tackle · Mar 22, 2023

PeterT said:
You just need to be far enough away from the super volcano under Lake Taupo, which is stirring again I read recently, as that has the potential to blow good chunk of the North Island to smithereens!

I have had 3 long-ish trips to NZ. I must say I couldn’t get used to walking around even the bigger towns or cities on a Saturday afternoon and finding everything closed for the weekend and tumbleweed wafting past me. To be fair, I haven’t been there for 20 years so it may have changed.

I played cricket in Auckland for a while for a club side but for sure I wouldn’t want to play rugby there. The cricket club was aligned with a rugby club. I have never seen such enormous guys in my life. One of those running at me with a ball would have had me running for cover, a bit like England did against Jonah Lomu in 1995!

When I moved to Vancouver in 1982 (lived there for 4 years) and when I spent time in Dunedin (after a job - which was offered and I declined) in 1996, my thoughts were identical. "This must have been how it was like in Eastbourne in the 1950s".

Vancouver has kicked on a lot (for example, now there is more than one pub, and you can buy a beer on a Sunday without having to order a meal. And it is heaving with most driven people on the planet - the Chinese). Dunno about Dunedin.

Harry Wilson's tackle · Mar 22, 2023

BadFish said:
There was land for the Palestinians in an agreement from the 40s (from memory I could be wrong) but that land has been taken over time and if I remember correctly the remaining Palestinian lands are blocked of power and water.

However the situation is not going to be resolved through the mechanism of who is to blame more for what has been going on for so many years.

The sad fact of the matter is that their is little appetite from those who have power on each side to end the hostilities. The extreme factions of Hamas etc keep on fighting and the extreme governments of Israel take measures to ensure no softening of policy. All the while the people (mainly the Palestinians, let's face it) suffer the consequences.

All started by short sighted policy years ago.

And a lack of vision of what success would look like. Parachute in a load of diasporate, arm them and let them get on with it? Well, they will secure the territory and expand. It is what people do.

A classic bit of British 'couldn't give a fuckery' with what happens to the post colonial landscape. I also give you Rhodesia, India/Pakistan (east and west) and more recently, Hong Kong (despite Chris Patten's huffing and jolly-well puffing).

('We' owned Palestine before the creation of Israel. Not a lot of people seem tp know that)

herecomesaregular · Mar 22, 2023

The annual UN sponsored Worlds happiest countries list has just be released .

Live by the sea said:
No real surprises who made the top 10 , shame both the US & UK didn’t but at least they made the top 20 .

Lucky people who live in these countries .

World's happiest countries for 2023

1. Finland

2. Denmark

3. Iceland

4. Israel

5. Netherlands

6. Sweden

7. Norway

8. Switzerland

9. Luxembourg

10. New Zealand

Of those 10 I've been lucky enough to go to Iceland, Sweden, Netherlands and NZ (twice, including working). Of those, I'd go back to NZ in a heartbeat, the rest yes but only on a freebie. Of those I haven't been to on that list I'd love to visit Israel the most. First thing would be to test out hummus, Jewish or Arabic made, which is best. I have met an Arab and Jew who were both very heated about it this issue.

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