Neville's Breakfast
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Yes, it is and for many reasons. One of which is a huge rise in demand prompted by better understanding of needs.
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[Misc] Autism - Neurodiversity
- Thread starter BadFish
- Start date
Neville's Breakfast
Well-known member
@BadFish are you Elklan trained ? I would highly recommend it for anyone working with autistic children in schools.
www.elklan.co.uk
Elklan Training Ltd | Elklan Training Ltd
www.elklan.co.uk
BadFish
Huge Member
- Oct 19, 2003
- 17,102
- Thread starter
- #63
@BadFish are you Elklan trained ? I would highly recommend it for anyone working with autistic children in schools.
Elklan Training Ltd | Elklan Training Ltd
No I am not but I will definitely have a look, cheers
That's my understanding.
There are too many posts raising too many issues for me to begin to engage so apologies for not having done so.
Briefly (edit: I see I found that I was unable to be brief - fancy that), I took one of the many online tests about 3 years ago for identifying where one is on the spectrum. I forget the exact details now but the number of Yes answers out of around 32 defined whether you were free of any autism/Aspergers traits, showing little, showing some and showing a lot. I was in the latter quadrant. I have subsequently repeated the test and done others and the outcome is always the same.
I did what one does under such circumstances. I ignored it and didn't discuss it. One of my traits is (a good survival one) that if I can't do anything about something I ignore it, till I can.
So I revisited it in conversation with Mrs T. It was she who asked me to take the test because it was the last resort (to find some way to avoid her having to leave me because of my behaviour).
So I now try to mitigate my tendency to become extremely distressed and angry about Certain Things. These Certain Things are the reason why I was most comfortable to spend most of the last 30 years avoiding cohabiting with my previous partners. I'll list a few of these:
In my house I do not like things being moved without my knowing.
I get stressed if things (like vases and postcards) are put in front of other things (like books)
I need to be able to see every food item in a cupboard
(These traits were perhaps triggered by my time with my ex wife who was so extreme with the above that she could leave a fridge full of items but when I went to find something to eat almost all of it was empty or near-empty packaging - ffs)
At one time, even the smallest whiff of my imagining something of mine had been moved would trigger me into an angry panic. What I felt was that I was personally under attack, by a deliberate attempt to drive me mad. Yep, that's how I felt.
I still get these feelings but I have trained myself to basically not be a **** about everything.
Here is an issue we haven't resolved well. Mrs T will regularly wipe the hob with a wet sponge when there is almost no muck on it leaving smear marks. I clean the hob only after cooking a meal, but will follow the sponge with a proper polish using a dish cloth. It annoys Mrs T when I do this. I don't moan at her about the spearing but she moans at me for making the dish cloth dirty. I like to change the dosh cloth every day so I don't care making it dirty. In any case....it isn't dirty. I maintain that she can clean the hob how she likes as long as she doesn't 'tut' at me over the way I clean it.
Small beer perhaps.
In my wider life I get deeply stressed by people who want me to do things without explaining properly, and at work I get very angry over the absurd belcheesery that most others just shrug their shoulders over and jog past. For example, being asked to spend 30 hours populating a time and motion survey on my teaching hours, generating data that is only ever be used to justify sacking someone, and the fundamentals of which 'they' (the curators of my work life) already have at their finger tips. Why divide delivered content into lectures, seminars and workshops owing to the fact the preparation and assessment have different 'tariffs', then ask us to load the preparation and assessment on top of the delivery, on a separate page, to generate total tariff, rather than autogenerate it. Absolute f***ing wankers.
My little brother just quit his job one Friday in a fit of pique owing to the antics of a senior colleague. A week or so earlier he had been asked to drive from Portslade to the west midlands to have a meeting with a senior manager and when he got there the senior manager had forgotten why he wanted to see him. When asked to do some other bit of daft nonsense he just quit. After 30+ years. With no plan....
.....my little brother is like me but more extreme. He has avoided being annoyed by people by having no friends. He is very happy on his own. We meet up from time to time and he is a thoughtful pleasant affable bloke. Just don't ask him to do anything outside his comfort zone.
I have made an effort to do the things I hate the idea of doing in order to have a life, and it has worked. I learned how to feign empathy, and it has perhaps become actual empathy, but I can have terrible lapses and come across as incredibly rude and self centred. I forced myself to present research in public, and ended up as a university academic. I like running practicals and giving lectures because I am in absolute control. Once I get over the stress of designing everything and ensuring the plan is effective, I'm good to go. I have managed millions of pounds of research funds and have actually discovered something (and patented a new drug).
So I'm not a jellybrain. Nor am I ill, disabled, sad or mad. I am of course entirely alone, even though I share my home and life with others, and have wonderful pals who I adore. I exist inside my head and find the world outside to be, well, not at all frightening, and not irrational, but not something I can intuitively navigate. I have had wonderful relationships with a small number of people who get me, but I cannot read people who are dissembling, and in my academic life where I am dealing with a large number of psychopaths who are gaming everything, I don't engage. I stopped going to society meetings years ago - you learn nothing other that who has the biggest ego.
Anyway, that's enough of my ramblings. I'd write a book on how to survive being on the spectrum, but I can't really be bothered...lol!
Neville's Breakfast
Well-known member
Harry, you are also clearly incredibly eloquent in articulating your shortcomings, skills and feelings. The brain is a remarkable thing and there are certain things in what you say I can identify with in myself whilst others not so much. I don’t know much about online testing. I do know that autism diagnosis results are best interpreted by experts. I previously mentioned ADOS/ADIR on this thread. This incorporates very detailed investigative questioning and also family history via parental interview and can differentiate from other developmental issues . Coping with autism is very much about finding strategies that work for you so sounds like you are doing the right thing.
rebel51
Well-known member
A thread like this has made me realise how my way of thinking about football is to obsessive for me. I have to take my foot off the pedal with the life and death feeling abt the albion. Just try to enjoy the journey following the albion whether it be the short lived highs or the regular lows. Thanks to everyone who's contributed on this thread. I'm going to lie down now lol.
I've experienced this with autism too.
Why do you think we're all on a spectrum?
BBC Two - Inside Our Autistic Minds, Series 1, Episode 1
Chris helps an autistic comedian connect with her mum and a non-speaking man find a voice.
Chris Packham has just done a great program on BBC, helping people like autism explain how they feel to family and friends who may not understand.
Simply because it seems to be a continuum rather than something with clear demarcations. For some they simply have some traits. My middle brother is to all intents and purposes not neuro-diverse. I always envied him for this. He has an easy charm and has had an uncomplicated life. I mentioned this to him when I was first discussing my newfound 'diagnosis'. His wife, luckily was not drinking tea at the time. "You are kidding" she said. "Every day he's accusing me and the kids of moving his stuff". So....not as bad as me, so on a different part of the spectrum.
One of my academic colleagues has many of my traits but simply doesn't care. She is a highly effective professor. It is possible she gets away more with her behaviour extremes than I do because she is charming and attractive, whereas I am obviously a cantankerous git. But....we are different.
Moving away from the 'high functioning' middle we have people who suffer much more. One of my students, a super bright woman who could see all the awkward nuances of the things I taught, often finds she cannot interact with people 'live' at all. She then gets distressed, can't sleep, and then may experience mild hallucinations. Others have extreme sensitivity to noise and touch. I have mild noise sensitivity, and had to learn how to find hugging not weird, but I know some people who won't be touched.
At the other end, the 'normal' end, I have often wondered how some people can be so 'normal'. They always seem to see things the way they are 'supposed' to be seen, are not bovvered by anything, and are entirely predictable and reliable. It is definitely a spectrum.
And of course it is cross-cut by other spectrums. Spectrums of attitude, capability, disposition, psychopathy, etc., Some issues being innate, some learned. That's how we end up with such a diversity of humans. All our traits have advantages and disadvantages, and these map to different survival pathways, with the extent of advantage and disadvantage affected by circumstances (wartime versus peace time, famine vs plenty, social order vs barbarity).
Your trait of what you self-deprecatingly call pedantry may be an expression of where you are on the spectrum. And it isn't a bad thing. Attention to detail is a necessary skill in many aspects of human life.
It is what it is.
The Mole
Well-known member
Ok so here’s my story about autism.
In the early seventies my sister was diagnosed with autism - she used to have severe tantrums, continually screaming if her doll’s clothes weren’t just so, rocking and obviously not developing in the way that other children did. At that time there were only 4,000 people (children mostly) diagnosed with autism. As she had speech, her condition was considered mild.
She managed to get a place at a specialist school for a few years - most of the others were severely disabled - no speech and big behavioural issues. Then she managed to get a place at a local village school. The teachers and pupils were great, it was the one time she integrated into society. Unfortunately the headmaster of the comp I attended wouldn’t accept her so she was removed from her friends wherein she was sent to an ESN (educationally sub normal - they had some revolting terms in those days - where she did not progress much at all. Life became a lot harder for her as an adult - people make allowances for pretty children who have disabilities, but they are not so accommodating to strange behaviours in adults.
She has been at a few residential homes - my parents could not cope with her even though they tried as much as anyone could. Some of her behaviour does get extreme. In a way her ability to speak hides the fact that her level of competence is about that of a pre school child.
The latest home does seem to be better - but it is expensive and we are always worried when the government (central and local of all political parties) have to make cuts. So, when people say autism isn’t a disability- it is for those at the severe end of the spectrum.
So given this summarised experience, there are pieces of advice I can give. The future does look better as we are learning fr mor about autism now especially from those at the higher end of the spectrum. There are some great positive tv programmes: the A word, Atypical and love on the spectrum (this taught me to go into my sister’s world and not expect her to join the mainstream). Also to any parents, remember your other children have needs - it is quite normal to expend more energy on the child with a disability, but the others need attention as well.
I hope this is useful to some of you, and if you want to contact me regarding my experience (I am no expert though) feel free to dm me.
In the early seventies my sister was diagnosed with autism - she used to have severe tantrums, continually screaming if her doll’s clothes weren’t just so, rocking and obviously not developing in the way that other children did. At that time there were only 4,000 people (children mostly) diagnosed with autism. As she had speech, her condition was considered mild.
She managed to get a place at a specialist school for a few years - most of the others were severely disabled - no speech and big behavioural issues. Then she managed to get a place at a local village school. The teachers and pupils were great, it was the one time she integrated into society. Unfortunately the headmaster of the comp I attended wouldn’t accept her so she was removed from her friends wherein she was sent to an ESN (educationally sub normal - they had some revolting terms in those days - where she did not progress much at all. Life became a lot harder for her as an adult - people make allowances for pretty children who have disabilities, but they are not so accommodating to strange behaviours in adults.
She has been at a few residential homes - my parents could not cope with her even though they tried as much as anyone could. Some of her behaviour does get extreme. In a way her ability to speak hides the fact that her level of competence is about that of a pre school child.
The latest home does seem to be better - but it is expensive and we are always worried when the government (central and local of all political parties) have to make cuts. So, when people say autism isn’t a disability- it is for those at the severe end of the spectrum.
So given this summarised experience, there are pieces of advice I can give. The future does look better as we are learning fr mor about autism now especially from those at the higher end of the spectrum. There are some great positive tv programmes: the A word, Atypical and love on the spectrum (this taught me to go into my sister’s world and not expect her to join the mainstream). Also to any parents, remember your other children have needs - it is quite normal to expend more energy on the child with a disability, but the others need attention as well.
I hope this is useful to some of you, and if you want to contact me regarding my experience (I am no expert though) feel free to dm me.
Glawstergull
Well-known member
I am in total awe of all of you. Keep fighting and keep loving.
Utter respect
Utter respect
While a diagnosis is based on people having enough of the traits, some people have either none of the traits or such mild versions of the traits that they really don't share much with someone who has autism, so personally I don't think that everyone is 'on the spectrum'. That is certainly not in any way meant to suggest that those who are autistic are in any way inferior (which I believe some may feel or want to defend themselves against) as that's just not how I view people or disability.
Graham?
Aspergers is not nece
Asperger's/autism spectrum.
Not everyone with Asperger's would call it a disability. I don't.
There isn't a threshold, like the drink driving limit, that demarcates 'normal' and 'disabled'.
I have no idea how diagnosis is made for Asperger's beyond self assessment, unless a person's behaviours are sufficiently disturbing to trigger mental health act intervention, or criminal prosecution.
For many of us, we are simply defined as being a bit odd, perhaps very odd or even weird, 'difficult', 'pedantic', a bit of a wanker, etc.
BadFish
Huge Member
- Oct 19, 2003
- 17,102
- Thread starter
- #74
Thanks for sharing this. It sounds like your family really went through it. As you say it is great that we have learnt so much more these days. There is still a way to go though.
I live the advice about our other kids, it is so true and important. Years ago I used to work on adventure camps and we ran them specifically for siblings of kids with disabilities, for the reasons you mention here. I hope these kind of things still happen.
BadFish
Huge Member
- Oct 19, 2003
- 17,102
- Thread starter
- #75
The short answer about Asperger's diagnosis is that it isn't diagnosed anymore. it now falls under the title of high functioning autism.
There is much discussion about the pros and cons of this, much discussion about the use of the term high functioning. I believe this discussion will continue and we will see more changes while the language gets sorted out. There is even discussion about the term 'spectrum' as most people assume a linier spectrum rather than the more descriptive multi directional spectrum.
Although language is obviously important my feeling is that perhaps people are spending too much time discussing semantics and taking the focus away from more practical improvements. Or maybe I have just got bored with the discussion.
back to Asperger's, my son and many other have rejected the name (it is his diagnosis) because of the links between Hans Asperger's and the Nazi party. Some of the stuff alleged his horrendous. I felt the stuff that I read wasn't conclusive in its legitimacy or definitive in is conclusion that his connections to nazism were of his own free will. I suspect more conclusive information about this will come to light
BadFish
Huge Member
- Oct 19, 2003
- 17,102
- Thread starter
- #76
Heartbreak High star accuses Marvel Stadium of ableism at Styles show
Marvel Stadium says its sensory room was designed to accommodate patrons with sensory needs, such as those with autism. But actor Chloe Hayden says her experience at the Harry Styles concert was a “slap in the face”.
I hope this lets you read it. Interesting article about a local hight profile autistic woman's experience at a gig. Glad to see the move towards sensory spaces is happening but sounds like some improvement in execution is needed.
My daughter, 6, is on assessment for ADHD/ASD - she is running out of class several times a day and very much in her own world. She's an incredibly bright girl who is very social, but has many problems concentrating and taking in any information - and is very 'sensory'.
I think we spent quite a while being stressed about it; which is ultimately a bit pointless, although understandable i guess.
Reading this thread has been really useful; there are some online resources that absolutely depress and scare the living crap out of me. I work in an industry (TV and Film) that has alot of people who are neuro diverse so long term I guess I am not worried.
It has been a journey of discovery thus far - both my wife and I now realise that we may be, and probably are on some sort of spectrum.
I think we spent quite a while being stressed about it; which is ultimately a bit pointless, although understandable i guess.
Reading this thread has been really useful; there are some online resources that absolutely depress and scare the living crap out of me. I work in an industry (TV and Film) that has alot of people who are neuro diverse so long term I guess I am not worried.
It has been a journey of discovery thus far - both my wife and I now realise that we may be, and probably are on some sort of spectrum.
Live by the sea
Well-known member
- Oct 21, 2016
- 4,718
I know a couple of people very similar to the way you have eloquently described yourself , it’s clearly far more prevalent than some people think .
Reinelt12
Sick Note
My younger son (14) was diagnosed ASD 3 years ago after 7 years of us "knowing" there was something different but not quite finding out what, despite several assessments for various things. He was always described as "quirky" affectionately and once we got the diagnosis and had more information it all suddenly made sense, particularly when we did an Elklan course - I highly recommend those. He was labelled as high-functioning, but that implies that he doesn't really have difficulties, when in reality they are just different difficulties.
I coached his football team for 4 years, and was under so much pressure to remove him from the team by other parents (he wasn't as good as other players, but our club ethos was equal playing time for all), and I was accused of giving him preferential treatment because during training if something got too much for him, he would walk off to the side of the pitch and have a silent meltdown. I tried to explain that in those situations he needs to be left alone for a short time, but there was absolutely no understanding at all.
It came to a head when he got hit by a ball during a warm up for a semi-final as he was trying to find something by the goal... the goalkeeper at the time stood over him and gave him abuse for being in the way... my assistant coach was the GK's dad, and he backed his son all the way, saying that he shouldn't have been anywhere near the goal. And yes, to us neurotypicals that was obvious, but to him it wasn't, he needed what he was looking for before the game or his anxiety would have gone through the roof.
When he went to secondary school he was relentlessly bullied, tag teamed by several kids as once one got into trouble, another took over. Every other day he would come home and go straight to his room very upset. It got to the point that one followed him home and kept hitting him around the head with a boot bag, and at that point we made the decision to pull him out of school altogether.
His confidence was shot to pieces, wouldn't try anything new, but since he has been home schooled his anxiety has practically disappeared, his confidence returned and he is willing to try new things (Gliding, rock climbing, kayaking at Scouts to name a few). This has culminated in him starting his real passion, driving karts. He has been going 7 weeks and has already progressed 3 levels to Advanced (where the other drivers have been driving at least a year), partially because of his meticulous attention to detail, studying the track, watching many videos on the racing line, braking zones etc. and this is where his Autism I believe is a superpower.
I coached his football team for 4 years, and was under so much pressure to remove him from the team by other parents (he wasn't as good as other players, but our club ethos was equal playing time for all), and I was accused of giving him preferential treatment because during training if something got too much for him, he would walk off to the side of the pitch and have a silent meltdown. I tried to explain that in those situations he needs to be left alone for a short time, but there was absolutely no understanding at all.
It came to a head when he got hit by a ball during a warm up for a semi-final as he was trying to find something by the goal... the goalkeeper at the time stood over him and gave him abuse for being in the way... my assistant coach was the GK's dad, and he backed his son all the way, saying that he shouldn't have been anywhere near the goal. And yes, to us neurotypicals that was obvious, but to him it wasn't, he needed what he was looking for before the game or his anxiety would have gone through the roof.
When he went to secondary school he was relentlessly bullied, tag teamed by several kids as once one got into trouble, another took over. Every other day he would come home and go straight to his room very upset. It got to the point that one followed him home and kept hitting him around the head with a boot bag, and at that point we made the decision to pull him out of school altogether.
His confidence was shot to pieces, wouldn't try anything new, but since he has been home schooled his anxiety has practically disappeared, his confidence returned and he is willing to try new things (Gliding, rock climbing, kayaking at Scouts to name a few). This has culminated in him starting his real passion, driving karts. He has been going 7 weeks and has already progressed 3 levels to Advanced (where the other drivers have been driving at least a year), partially because of his meticulous attention to detail, studying the track, watching many videos on the racing line, braking zones etc. and this is where his Autism I believe is a superpower.
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