Well, quite. I know they are largely not oppressed or in poverty. The consequences for dissent are draconian but day to day life appears pleasant for most.
You are kidding me. Of course people believe this!
Why would you be ashamed of the actions of a government that, according to your own stated views, you have no meaningful role in electing or control over?
Has been quite an entertaining old style NSC binfest. Shan’t be making a habit of it though. It’s amused me through my first hangover in 7 months but won’t be repeating it anytime soon.Largely this thread has descended into people violently agreeing with one another
I would argue (in general) that you either believe in your values and hold both yourselves and others to them, or you don't. If another culture doesn't match up to those values, you have to honestly question whether your own values are crock, or if the other culture is actually just a bunch of bellends.Indeed. But imposing our value system on another culture is arrogant. I think that the heat in this thread is missplaced. I don't think there is much disagreement between posters, on the whole, except from those who imagine that China will never be free until it has western-style democracy.
It's all Chinese whispers.Largely this thread has descended into people violently agreeing with one another
1. Well yes the whole thing about democracy being a real thing is of course deeply indoctrinated in me so I still spontaneusly feel embarrassed when the Swedish govt is doing shit, despite having no vote in who's actually in charge of the country. But govt or no govt, its not like I've been out on the streets protesting Wallenberg either - so I'm still part of the problem, vote or no vote.
……and as for a pizza 
(I disagree
) - I think shooting people at any point in any country for demonstrating can certainly serve a long term purpose of enforcing a belief that protest will ultimately effect nothing but a tightening up of security and an increased likelihood of being imprisoned or shot.Hmm - That does seem to be based on empirical evidence
They're not communists though. Its just a capitalistic one-party state.
Having lived in China I disagree - many groups of peoples are oppressed (certainly not the han Chinese who live mainly in the most westernised cities) and live in fear of a government who doesn't hesitate in violently quashing any form or protest for human rights. Even han Chinese have only had the glass ceiling raised a certain amount in terms of freedoms (internet censorship for one). Not obvious to those visiting but it becomes more obvious the more time you spend there. Almost impossible to talk politics with natives for a start, basically through fear. Activists who have gone missing. High profile people who have disappeared from public spotlight suddenly after speaking out.
So CCP stands for Chinese Capitalist Party? Right?
I think it's important to accept that criticism must sometimes come from people who are themselves flawed.
.
Whatever they call themselves, they're not communists in any meaningful way.
But that is how Xi justifies his excesses
It really doesn't matter what they call themselves. Their politics aren't communist and haven't been for a long while. Similar to how Manchester United does not appear to be all that united, or how the UK Conservative Party isn't really conserving anything but rather try to do massive and frequently useless changes.
Zero freedom of speech for the proles, for a start.
