[News] Deadly floods in Germany

[AZ Gull]

On another extreme

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....alley-record-high-temperature/?outputType=amp

Remember this when u feel a tad warm this weekend

In Phoenix, July 2020 was the hottest July on record.

And then August 2020 was the hottest August on record.

June 2021 was then the hottest June on record.....

 

[beorhthelm]

The idea of a carbon footprint etc is just PR funded by the big oil and gas giants to shift responsibility from them to the common man.

The likes of you and I changing our lifestyle will make no impact whatsoever. Don't believe a word of it.

All we can do is campaign and demand Government and businesses make far bigger moves to address the impending disaster.

hate to break it to you, everything that the oil and gas giants produce is consumed by the common man. from your car, air travel, phone, TV, clothing and carpets, to goods transportation, heating and fertilisers. there's a few areas substitution will work, most of the time they are inferior or you just move the energy and emissions somewhere else. we need to stop having and using those things to stop consumption, then they'll make less of them.

 

[Weststander]

I do. Governments talk about it but what are they doing - banning diesel vehicles many years from now, just won't cut it.




But they didn't know what was going to happen when they stopped burning coal but did it anyway. I'm not sure why that's different (from scientific view) from saying that we should cut back on fossil fuels or stop eating meat. The difference is the lack of political will.



But the deforestation of the Amazon is directly correlated to meat consumption - the trees are being cleared for more animal farming. If we ate less meat, then there'd be no need to clear the forest.

Of course, eating less meat is only a small part of it (although anything to help stop deforestation is a good thing) and cutting down on car use is also a small part - but if several hundred million people did it, then it's going to have a bigger effect. Cutting down on air travel would also have an effect.

I'm not a pessimist who thinks we're all doomed but I do think we should be doing more than we are and not be so complacent

The sly destruction of Amazonia and elsewhere has also been for the mass production of Palm Oil, used widely for non-meat foods, toiletries and biofuels.

Just a few short years ago Palm Oil was widely championed as a positive game changer.

The planet will never get back those tracts of equatorial rain forest the size of countries. The carbon stores and very special ecosystems lost, endangered fauna murdered.

 

[highflyer]

Change will need to be driven from the top. And the changes required will mean substantial change to our current economic model and will mean challenging the power of corporations and the super rich.

As it happens we had an opposition party prepared to step up to that plate and brave enough to lay out, and stand behind, the type of change that is needed.

An opposition that was inexperienced and isolated within their own party. An oppostion that made mistakes and needed to be supported. An opposition that actually inspired young people to engage in politics and to believe that change is possible.

Unfortunately most on here couldn't wait to join in with the right wing press in trashing that opposition, calling them unelectable and helping to open the door to the government we now have. A government that will find it impossible to do the necessary, given who they are funded by, and supported by, and the underlying ideology of their leaders.

I acknowledge this post will not make me widely (or wildly) popular.

 

[pastafarian]

I'm seriously thinking about not having kids because of how ****ed the world is. Most of my mates have had kids this year and I think it's the most selfish thing you can do

Sent from my SM-A715F using Tapatalk

...is the correct answer:

https://www.independent.co.uk/clima...nge-damage-having-kids-research-a7837961.html

“All of our environmental problems become easier to solve with fewer people, and harder – and ultimately impossible – to solve with ever more people.”
Sir David Attenborough
Patron
https://populationmatters.org/

“There’s no point bleating about the future of pandas, polar bears and tigers when we’re not addressing the one single factor that’s putting more pressure on the ecosystem than any other — namely the ever-increasing size of the world’s population.”
Chris Packham
Patron
https://populationmatters.org/

 

[Ali_rrr]

We're also having some issues here in The Netherlands. Luckily today was a bit better, but all around the Germany/Belgium/Netherlands border are terrible floods.


I fear the death toll is going to keep rising for the next week or so.

 

[beorhthelm]

Change will need to be driven from the top. And the changes required will mean substantial change to our current economic model and will mean challenging the power of corporations and the super rich.

As it happens we had an opposition party prepared to step up to that plate and brave enough to lay out, and stand behind, the type of change that is needed.

really? i remember their green policy was long on promises, longer on open cheque (£400bn), short on actual things to make the change happen.

just reviewing their manifesto the only meaningful pledge is for 7000 off shore wind turbines (happening anyway), 2000 on shore laugh, 17k acres of solar and new nuclear laugh. rest is vague, including heat pumps and solar water heating (the north will love that) and making our homes magically more heat efficient. to top it off a promise for lower energy bills. all by 2030, 11 years to do what would probably take 30-40, if even technically viable. at least we know where the jobs would come from, an army of trades refitting homes.

lets start being honest and tell people they wont be able to fly to the med, wont be able to heat their home to 20deg, have to hire an electric car or commute by overcrowded electric buses, no imported foods and unfertilised crops raising basic food prices (positive on obesity problem ).

 

[Weststander]

Change will need to be driven from the top. And the changes required will mean substantial change to our current economic model and will mean challenging the power of corporations and the super rich.

As it happens we had an opposition party prepared to step up to that plate and brave enough to lay out, and stand behind, the type of change that is needed.

An opposition that was inexperienced and isolated within their own party. An oppostion that made mistakes and needed to be supported. An opposition that actually inspired young people to engage in politics and to believe that change is possible.

Unfortunately most on here couldn't wait to join in with the right wing press in trashing that opposition, calling them unelectable and helping to open the door to the government we now have. A government that will find it impossible to do the necessary, given who they are funded by, and supported by, and the underlying ideology of their leaders.

I acknowledge this post will not make me widely (or wildly) popular.

Despite that party political speech on behalf of Momentum, in the real world the UK’s contribution to reducing carbon emissions over the last 20 years has been the equal of any major economy, far better than most.

Sky News this evening reported that ironically Germany have failed to meet their own carbon reduction targets by 50%.

The UK needs to do more and soon, but we’re just one tiny part of the big picture. Germany, Canada and the US need to stop putting old industries and exports first, and get their arses into gear. Now.

 

[highflyer]

Pedictable responses.

But just a few minutes on google will show anyone that is open to the idea the extent to which Corbyn and McDonnell shifted the dial on climate change and the costs and actions involved in dealing wih it.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-unveils-labour-plans-for-400bn-in-investment

https://www.ft.com/content/52fff5a6-ddde-11e9-b112-9624ec9edc59

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ge-business-manifesto-mcdonnell-a9208801.html

The reality is we don't like the idea of climate change. As we don't like the idea of inequality.
But what most people (over a certain age) like even less is those that are prepared to talk about what change might actually need to look like.

 

[beorhthelm]

Pedictable responses.

But just a few minutes on google will show anyone that is open to the idea the extent to which Corbyn and McDonnell shifted the dial on climate change and the costs and actions involved in dealing wih it.

predictable but not wrong. the links dont provide any evidence of what change and actions were proposed, just the bill.

 

[Stat Brother]

Yet just 'down the road':-

Thousands of flamingos die in drought in central Turkey

https://www.independent.co.uk/climate-change/news/baby-flamingos-death-drought-turkey-b1885031.html

 

[Mr Putdown]

But the deforestation of the Amazon is directly correlated to meat consumption - the trees are being cleared for more animal farming.

Of the five major threats to the rainforest, agriculture is right up there with logging and mining.

But it is utterly wrong to suggest that the impact of agriculture in cleared forest is just from raising meat, as it’s unquestionably not.

There seems to be no breakdown of the specific impact of the various farming practices undertaken on cleared Virgin rainforest, it’s all lumped together.

Is there a source for your claim Gwylan?

 

[Poojah]

The problem with the spectre of climate change, is that no one really has a reference point for how bad it could be. And that makes it hard to understand, difficult to comprehend.

In many ways, I think we all felt a bit of that at the start of last year. Despite it becoming increasingly obvious that something very significant was headed our way in the shape of the pandemic, I think for most of us (myself included) there was a sense of “but that would be horrible, therefore it can’t possibly be happening”. I’m not sure it’s really ignorance in the truest sense, but rather basic human nature. We’re hard-wired not to ruminate over our own, inevitable deaths as doing so would overshadow our lives and throttle day-to-day existence. The same is true of world-changing events.

But as we know from medical science, sometimes it’s our own safety mechanisms that do the damage, that ultimately see us off. I don’t really know how we tackle that, but if the last 18 months have taught me anything it’s that shit really does happen. And if THIS shit happens, then we potentially are well and truly fúcked - perhaps sooner than most of us could have imagined.

I’m not sure what it will take for the penny to drop, and admittedly it only just has for me, but things need to change very rapidly if we are to avoid a very dystopian future for our children. The kind of future that makes the Covid years look like absolute paradise.

 

[BN41Albion]

The problem with the spectre of climate change, is that no one really has a reference point for how bad it could be. And that makes it hard to understand, difficult to comprehend.

In many ways, I think we all felt a bit of that at the start of last year. Despite it becoming increasingly obvious that something very significant was headed our way in the shape of the pandemic, I think for most of us (myself included) there was a sense of “but that would be horrible, therefore it can’t possibly be happening”. I’m not sure it’s really ignorance in the truest sense, but rather basic human nature. We’re hard-wired not to ruminate over our own, inevitable deaths as doing so would overshadow our lives and throttle day-to-day existence. The same is true of world-changing events.

But as we know from medical science, sometimes it’s our own safety mechanisms that do the damage, that ultimately see us off. I don’t really know how we tackle that, but if the last 18 months have taught me anything it’s that shit really does happen. And if THIS shit happens, then we potentially are well and truly fúcked - perhaps sooner than most of us could have imagined.

I’m not sure what it will take for the penny to drop, and admittedly it only just has for me, but things need to change very rapidly if we are to avoid a very dystopian future for our children. The kind of future that makes the Covid years look like absolute paradise.

Good - if very depressing - post. I think you've hit the nail on the head really. I'm definitely starting to think that things could change much more rapidly than I imagined

 

[vegster]

What has happened in Germany, Belgium and the Netherlands is terrible, an absolute tragedy.

As a society we need to live in a sustainable way and sadly, capitalism does not work that way. We urgently need to take Co2 out of the environment and turn climate change around but, is there the ability or desire to do that globally?

 

[sydney]

Apologies if I’ve missed a thread on this, but some pretty distressing images and figures coming out of Germany (and other parts of Europe) following horrendous floods. Now over 100 people confirmed dead and still hundreds unaccounted for.

I’ve witnessed some significant floods in the UK, but never anything which came close to posing a significant threat to human life. This just isn’t ‘normal’, is it?

I am by no means a climate activist - to the contrary I eat meat and drive a diesel car. But it’s difficult to look at what’s going on over there and not wonder whether we have to do far more, now. This might not just be a problem for future generations.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-57860153

too late....the major contributor is deforestation which is still going on at an alarming rate in South America and Indonesia / Malaysia......land cleared for grazing cattle , palm oil plantations(ironically for biofuel so gets conservation tick) and to make paper to wipe our delicate arses....not only are native forests felled and chain dragged , the ruins are then burned and ploughed in .....****ing depressing , we're ****ed.

unless this immediately stops , the plant and workers being used are adapted to plant billions of fast growing shrubs and trees and billionaires such as Branson , Bezos , Musk , Rhinehart , Rothschild , Rockerfeller and many others contribute from their obscene collective wealth , start paying the poorer people of the world to clean up their countries and burn the resultant refuse in clean , power producing furnaces as a viable power sources.

now is the time to start pulling together , we don't have long .

immediate commencement of reforestation projects on a global scale and an immediate halt to coal burning power stations is a bare minimum to turn this around ...in my opinion like.

 

[sydney]

The problem with the spectre of climate change, is that no one really has a reference point for how bad it could be. And that makes it hard to understand, difficult to comprehend.

In many ways, I think we all felt a bit of that at the start of last year. Despite it becoming increasingly obvious that something very significant was headed our way in the shape of the pandemic, I think for most of us (myself included) there was a sense of “but that would be horrible, therefore it can’t possibly be happening”. I’m not sure it’s really ignorance in the truest sense, but rather basic human nature. We’re hard-wired not to ruminate over our own, inevitable deaths as doing so would overshadow our lives and throttle day-to-day existence. The same is true of world-changing events.

But as we know from medical science, sometimes it’s our own safety mechanisms that do the damage, that ultimately see us off. I don’t really know how we tackle that, but if the last 18 months have taught me anything it’s that shit really does happen. And if THIS shit happens, then we potentially are well and truly fúcked - perhaps sooner than most of us could have imagined.

I’m not sure what it will take for the penny to drop, and admittedly it only just has for me, but things need to change very rapidly if we are to avoid a very dystopian future for our children. The kind of future that makes the Covid years look like absolute paradise.

places like Holland , Bangladesh , Micronesia and anything less than 20 mrs above sea level is in for a shaky future.

 

[cloud]

The Dutch are acutely aware of this
https://www.politico.eu/article/when-will-the-netherlands-disappear-climate-change/

 

[Machiavelli]

really? i remember their green policy was long on promises, longer on open cheque (£400bn), short on actual things to make the change happen.

just reviewing their manifesto the only meaningful pledge is for 7000 off shore wind turbines (happening anyway), 2000 on shore laugh, 17k acres of solar and new nuclear laugh. rest is vague, including heat pumps and solar water heating (the north will love that) and making our homes magically more heat efficient. to top it off a promise for lower energy bills. all by 2030, 11 years to do what would probably take 30-40, if even technically viable. at least we know where the jobs would come from, an army of trades refitting homes.

lets start being honest and tell people they wont be able to fly to the med, wont be able to heat their home to 20deg, have to hire an electric car or commute by overcrowded electric buses, no imported foods and unfertilised crops raising basic food prices (positive on obesity problem ).

Looking forward to you subjecting the Tory manifesto to similar scrutiny, and then also factoring in:
-- the number of campaign pledges they've reneged on within 20 months
-- the number of dreadful extant environmental campaigns they've ditched and not replaced

The only valid response with the big two parties (if that still applies -- Labour's future doesn't look too rosy) is to compare them and see which has the better policies. Labour's policies at the last election were clearly better than the Tories for the environment, the British population and beyond. Unfortunately, their leader was clueless. Johnson at least has a clue how to operate, however unpalatable just about everything else is about him.

 

[Machiavelli]

Despite that party political speech on behalf of Momentum, in the real world the UK’s contribution to reducing carbon emissions over the last 20 years has been the equal of any major economy, far better than most.

Sky News this evening reported that ironically Germany have failed to meet their own carbon reduction targets by 50%.

The UK needs to do more and soon, but we’re just one tiny part of the big picture. Germany, Canada and the US need to stop putting old industries and exports first, and get their arses into gear. Now.

View attachment 138711

You're beginning to sound like Johnson now -- which is an insult coming from me, although toning it down, only a tiny bit . That said, a few things on this:
-- one of the reasons why the UK has achieved carbon reductions in the past few decades is because of the transition from being a big coal user to pretty much phasing it out -- although this policy/energy shift was conducted as a result of class war, but did have beneficial unintended consequences (I'll slag off Thatcher too but she understood better than any of her Tory successors)
-- much of the flattery in this chart is because the UK has exported carbon emissions elsewhere because we largely import goods (and export waste) to the periphery