[Football] England when it comes to the crunch

[maltaseagull]

We were too deep from the 5th minute, I said it to my other half at the time. Kane was our furthest advanced player but was only half way inside our own half for most of the game.

It’s naive management. Unfortunately, brilliant bloke and statesman that he is, all the while Southgate is in charge, we won’t break that cycle.

A key moment for me was when an Italian player (not sure who) went down "injured" and was treated on the pitch for a few minutes while his shattered knee was replaced but Mancini was able to talk to the rest of the players and change the system. Up to then we had looked dangerous on the break. After that they took control.
I thought Southgate should have made some changes after they equalised.

 

[Weststander]

I'm afraid bringing on Henderson was a massive calamity aswell

We were awful before and after his introduction. The stats are astonishing …. like a Guardiola-Hughton game.



Not losing the game itself due to having 9 defenders from the 30th minute, with Kane and Sterling playing 35 yards from our goal to help close down.

Thoroughly outclassed.

Until the club academies produce CM’ers of the Pirlo, Modric, Veratti, Gazza or Jorginho ilk, England will always be a class below.

 

[Weststander]

A key moment for me was when an Italian player (not sure who) went down "injured" and was treated on the pitch for a few minutes while his shattered knee was replaced but Mancini was able to talk to the rest of the players and change the system. Up to then we had looked dangerous on the break. After that they took control.
I thought Southgate should have made some changes after they equalised.

Jorginho, his career apparently over. We said at the time that it was a ‘time-out’ from Mancini, the team were clearly being given new instructions.

Yep, Italy the ran the game, Jorginho a possible MOTM.

 

[Seagull]

Italy were in shock after our brilliant start & we should have been ruthless and capitalised while dominating. It needed to be 2-0 before their inevitable chance arrived. After a while Italy closed us down with a press at every opportunity while we sat back, offering 10 yards of space to dangerous players like Chiesa to run at us. Madness. We should have pressed them in the same way and passed the ball around rather than resorting to hopeful hoofing or head tennis, usually ending in Italian possession. Rather than holding on, we should have struck the fear of God into them, attacked their ageing defenders with pace. Ultimately they played the dynamics of the final, cunning fouls included, better than us and produced the better performance. Unfortunately the script felt far too reminiscent of Portugal 2004 and Croatia 2018. Going for the jugular, carpe diem, not safety first backs to the wall fearfulness will have more chance of getting us over the line, if we are ever near it again!

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

A far better England side choke again. Lesser opposition batter us, and we just hang on for penalties. Or, hang on, the opposition hang on for penalties, and....Southgate was clueless and....we will never, ever beat the hoodoo....cheating foreigners, and....

Come on. We played perhaps the best side in the world at the moment who were unbeaten in 33 and we lost. On penalties. If we had won on penalties then the goon on the radio right now would not be saying 'Southgate got his tactics wrong'. No he didn't.

Now, if your essence as a human is rooted in the extent to which you can feel 'proud' to be English and this requires our football team winning tournaments, tough titty. You are in for a lifetime of disappointment.

I'm very pleased with England football's trajectory.

In the past, yes, cliques, shocking organisation, naivety. We are not like this anymore.

Some tin pot racist coked up moron 'supporters', of course. But this is England after all.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

We have to recognise that getting to the final was a fantastic achievement, first one for 55 years as we well know. I found it very sad that all the players instantly ripped their runners-up medals from the necks, yes they're hurting but it shouldn't be the case that winning is the only thing that matters and everything else is failure. For many of them that match will be the highest level of football they play, the biggest stage that they ever achieve in their careers, and it should be something to be proud of. That medal means something.

It goes for everybody, it hurts, doubly-so because it was our old enemy the penalty shoot-out, but we must also be proud of them and recognise the achievement.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

We have to recognise that getting to the final was a fantastic achievement, first one for 55 years as we well know. I found it very sad that all the players instantly ripped their runners-up medals from the necks, yes they're hurting but it shouldn't be the case that winning is the only thing that matters and everything else is failure. For many of them that match will be the highest level of football they play, the biggest stage that they ever achieve in their careers, and it should be something to be proud of. That medal means something.

It goes for everybody, it hurts, doubly-so because it was our old enemy the penalty shoot-out, but we must also be proud of them and recognise the achievement.

I didn't mind them showing they were not satisfied to finish second. Did you see Ben White receive his medal? If he hadn't immediately removed it I would have been disappointed.

 

[BadFish]

Italy were in shock after our brilliant start & we should have been ruthless and capitalised while dominating. It needed to be 2-0 before their inevitable chance arrived. After a while Italy closed us down with a press at every opportunity while we sat back, offering 10 yards of space to dangerous players like Chiesa to run at us. Madness. We should have pressed them in the same way and passed the ball around rather than resorting to hopeful hoofing or head tennis, usually ending in Italian possession. Rather than holding on, we should have struck the fear of God into them, attacked their ageing defenders with pace. Ultimately they played the dynamics of the final, cunning fouls included, better than us and produced the better performance. Unfortunately the script felt far too reminiscent of Portugal 2004 and Croatia 2018. Going for the jugular, carpe diem, not safety first backs to the wall fearfulness will have more chance of getting us over the line, if we are ever near it again!

I think that they exposed a deficiency in our passing game with a relentless press. I just don't think we are confident enough with the ball at our feet . . . yet.

Still some way to go yet, on the day we weren't good enough. Hopefully, we will learn and grow from this experience and come back stronger.

 

[Randy McNob]

Too much negativity for my liking, we had a good tourno and can be proud unlike losing to Iceland or being thumped by Germany,and our players coming home in disgrace

Far more positives than negatives

maybe we take a little bit too seriously?

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

I didn't mind them showing they were not satisfied to finish second. Did you see Ben White receive his medal? If he hadn't immediately removed it I would have been disappointed.

I did, by the time it came to him it was obvious he was going to do exactly what everyone else had done. Yes, they all decided to show they weren't satisfied to finish second - but to me it came over as petulant loser, at worst, or not understanding that we were proud of them, at best. We have been bigging up the mental strength and togetherness they have fostered as a squad, with Southgate being the perfect father figure - but I think they could have handled the defeat better than they did.

I guess there's no right way to do it - a team of winners doesn't contemplate losing, doesn't accept losing. Show me a good loser and I'll show you a loser, etc etc. But would have been nice to see them hold their heads up a bit higher, they did us proud and there is no shame... very few players get to experience playing at this highest level, even fewer get to experience winning it.

I just wish it had been the experienced senior players who had missed, we have three kids holding it on their shoulders. Rashford's tournament will only be remembered for missing a pen, Sterling has been one of the stars of the tournament and if he had missed we would still place it in that context. Saka is 19, a star in the making but that was clearly too much pressure for him at that moment - Henderson has lifted the Premier League and Champions League trophies, captains one of the biggest clubs in the country, his career is a success regardless. I imagine the whole team is feeling the same way, that the way the shoot-out unfolded will cause a lot of sleepless nights, for those who took a kick and for those who didn't.....

 

[Farehamseagull]

A key moment for me was when an Italian player (not sure who) went down "injured" and was treated on the pitch for a few minutes while his shattered knee was replaced but Mancini was able to talk to the rest of the players and change the system. Up to then we had looked dangerous on the break. After that they took control.
I thought Southgate should have made some changes after they equalised.

Yep.

He also didn't react to Italy taking Immobile off and changing to a fluid front three. As soon as they did that, they were constantly picking up pockets of space between our lines and we couldn't get the ball back off them. It was so obvious and frustrating to watch, it was clear on our TV screens how they were doing this so it must have been obvious on the touchline and he just didn't do anything about it.

Mancini is on a different level as a coach. If we are to move on and win, I do think we need another manager as I don't think Southgate has got it in him to win a tournament. Who that man is I don't know though and that's the problem. I think if Potter was in charge of that side last night, we win, but he's too good and young for international management just yet.

 

[gripper stebson]

A dissapointing night obviously. Too negative and way to cautious... as usual.

Still, as we watched the England team walking round the pitch aftert the game I said to the wife, 'That's a Brighton player there.'

A proud, and quite bizarre, feeling for an old git like me.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I did, by the time it came to him it was obvious he was going to do exactly what everyone else had done. Yes, they all decided to show they weren't satisfied to finish second - but to me it came over as petulant loser, at worst, or not understanding that we were proud of them, at best. We have been bigging up the mental strength and togetherness they have fostered as a squad, with Southgate being the perfect father figure - but I think they could have handled the defeat better than they did.

I guess there's no right way to do it - a team of winners doesn't contemplate losing, doesn't accept losing. Show me a good loser and I'll show you a loser, etc etc. But would have been nice to see them hold their heads up a bit higher, they did us proud and there is no shame... very few players get to experience playing at this highest level, even fewer get to experience winning it.

I just wish it had been the experienced senior players who had missed, we have three kids holding it on their shoulders. Rashford's tournament will only be remembered for missing a pen, Sterling has been one of the stars of the tournament and if he had missed we would still place it in that context. Saka is 19, a star in the making but that was clearly too much pressure for him at that moment - Henderson has lifted the Premier League and Champions League trophies, captains one of the biggest clubs in the country, his career is a success regardless. I imagine the whole team is feeling the same way, that the way the shoot-out unfolded will cause a lot of sleepless nights, for those who took a kick and for those who didn't.....

Really? I think you're reading too much into it (medals). There were certainly some who kept the medal on. I think Henderson kept his on.

As for the pens, well, I won't blame them. That said a noisy minority of morons and racists will. I bet Saka and Rashford will be booed at the Amex this season, like Beckham was by everyone for a bit after 98. I think it would have been wrong to make the old warhorses take the early pens. It is what it is.

Listening to the radio, now, there are some hysterical callers. Southgate 'lacked courage' for not bring Sancho and Rashford on during the 90 minutes?

I think it's time to move on, now. Nothing to see, here

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Too much negativity for my liking, we had a good tourno and can be proud unlike losing to Iceland or being thumped by Germany,and our players coming home in disgrace

Far more positives than negatives

maybe we take a little bit too seriously?

This.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Terry Butcher thinks watching England was excruciating.

This is the Terry Butcher who won nothing with England.

This is the Terry Butcher who managed Coventry, Sunderland, Brentford and Newport County (and some no mark foreign clubs), where he was sacked, sacked, sacked and sacked (and sacked) for being a shit clueless manager.

He can shove his opinion about current England up his bollocks.

 

[dwayne]

Really? I think you're reading too much into it (medals). There were certainly some who kept the medal on. I think Henderson kept his on.

As for the pens, well, I won't blame them. That said a noisy minority of morons and racists will. I bet Saka and Rashford will be booed at the Amex this season, like Beckham was by everyone for a bit after 98. I think it would have been wrong to make the old warhorses take the early pens. It is what it is.

Listening to the radio, now, there are some hysterical callers. Southgate 'lacked courage' for not bring Sancho and Rashford on during the 90 minutes?

I think it's time to move on, now. Nothing to see, here

I've heard no racism from English people about last night. Absolutely no doubt it will be trolls from other countries abusing the players online.

Absolutely no way in hell any penalty misser will be booed at the amex this season.

Sent from my SM-G986B using Tapatalk

 

[zefarelly]

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ssue-resurfaced-as-control-turned-to-survival

 

[Pavilionaire]

Terry Butcher thinks watching England was excruciating.

This is the Terry Butcher who won nothing with England.

This is the Terry Butcher who managed Coventry, Sunderland, Brentford and Newport County (and some no mark foreign clubs), where he was sacked, sacked, sacked and sacked (and sacked) for being a shit clueless manager.

He can shove his opinion about current England up his bollocks.

I disagree with you. Sitting on a 1-0 lead for two hours IS the very dictionary definition of excruciating,.i.e. very awkward or tedious / intensely painful.

It shreds the nerves, it raises the blood pressure, it is stressful and at the same time frustrating, illogical. We were the home team, 1-0 up and we sat back.

Terry Butcher may not have been a successful manager, but he was Bobby Robson's England captain and led by example, and at least in 1990 we gave it a real good go from start to finish against top quality German side. Platt, Gascoigne, Waddle, Beardsley, Lineker and 2 attacking wing-backs in Pearce and Parker - equally as brave as this "fearless" generation we hear so much about, if not more so.

 

[vagabond]

Break the cycle? My entire life our 'cycle' has been to get over excited about a tournament and then fail gnominiously. But now we've had a semi final and final in back to back tournaments. I would call that breaking a cycle, the goal posts don't have to be shifted quite so soon do they?

This.

Crikey. People have short memories.

We’ve just reached a final ffs. When have England ever done that in your life time? Oh and the Semi Final of the WC. This manager has raised the bar for England. Just 5 years ago we were knocked out by Iceland.

 

[raymondo]

I did, by the time it came to him it was obvious he was going to do exactly what everyone else had done. Yes, they all decided to show they weren't satisfied to finish second - but to me it came over as petulant loser, at worst, or not understanding that we were proud of them, at best. We have been bigging up the mental strength and togetherness they have fostered as a squad, with Southgate being the perfect father figure - but I think they could have handled the defeat better than they did.

I guess there's no right way to do it - a team of winners doesn't contemplate losing, doesn't accept losing. Show me a good loser and I'll show you a loser, etc etc. But would have been nice to see them hold their heads up a bit higher, they did us proud and there is no shame... very few players get to experience playing at this highest level, even fewer get to experience winning it.

I just wish it had been the experienced senior players who had missed, we have three kids holding it on their shoulders. Rashford's tournament will only be remembered for missing a pen, Sterling has been one of the stars of the tournament and if he had missed we would still place it in that context. Saka is 19, a star in the making but that was clearly too much pressure for him at that moment - Henderson has lifted the Premier League and Champions League trophies, captains one of the biggest clubs in the country, his career is a success regardless. I imagine the whole team is feeling the same way, that the way the shoot-out unfolded will cause a lot of sleepless nights, for those who took a kick and for those who didn't.....

Exactly, very poor penalty management from Southgate and our so-called senior players...letting Saka take the risk for them. Shame on you for that, Shaw, Walker, Sterling, Grealish, Stones...