[News] Matt Hancock.

[zefarelly]

Matt Hancock you say?

 

[The Clamp]

People ask or imagine “what would happen if Corbyn had been in charge”? Well, we don’t know for sure but considering the person that has got in the way the most is Boris Johnson, because he’s a liberalist and doesn’t want to be told what to do or give any bad news, I would say Corbyn would have likely listened to medical advice and had stricter lockdowns, sooner and handled it a lot better. Corbyn isn’t afraid of being unpopular and would have likely handed the reigns largely over to scientists rather than trying to be popular with the electorate.

Let’s just cut through the bullshit; Corbyn would have done a far better job than Boris Johnson. End of.

It’s all arbitrary. “Corbyn would have messed up”. Well, if my grandmother had wheels, she would have been a bicycle. It’s a moot point.
But to suggest nobody could have handled this better than Boris Johnson is simply ludicrous.

 

[beorhthelm]

Only just catching up with this thread, so apologies if anyone else has picked this up already.

That 127k deaths figure. That figure is the one the government has chosen to focus on, because it makes them look better and because they can report it daily. Unfortunately, it's a figure based on completely arbitrary criteria (deaths within 28 days of a positive test) that on one hand filters out a large number of Covid-related deaths (in particular the large number who died of covid without ever being tested at the start of the pandemic, as well as those who die after the 28 day cutoff) and on the other includes some people it shouldn't (test positive for covid and get run over by a bus the next day? You're counted).

counterpoint, having Covid listed as comorbidity isnt reliable either. the threshold is for a doctor who hasnt seen the patient to be told they had covid like symptoms. coincidentally, there's a large fall in influenza and other respiratory diseases the past year.

 

[Audax]

counterpoint, having Covid listed as comorbidity isnt reliable either. the threshold is for a doctor who hasnt seen the patient to be told they had covid like symptoms. coincidentally, there's a large fall in influenza and other respiratory diseases the past year.

Coincidence is correct. Shock horror surprise, but lockdowns work against Flu and other respiratory diseases that can be caught from other people just as well as it does for Covid.

But yes, accept that there's probably some error in the death cert numbers as well (in particular early on in the Pandemic while the medical folks were getting to grips with it). That error will go both ways - there will be some certs incorrectly not including covid, some incorrectly including it. I still trust the death cert number far more than I'll ever trust the governments completely made up way of measuring it. We *know* for a fact that the government daily number is subject to huge amount of error (not least the fact they had to change it middle of last year to add the 28 days cut off because they were starting to count people who'd had a positive covid test in March then died months later in car accidents and the like). Even then, the 28 day cut off is so arbitrary - there's people who've spent more than 28 days in hospital with Covid, let alone 28 days after a positive test.

Also worth mentioning that there's growing evidence that having had Covid is elevating the risk of dying from a heart attack or stroke (and elevated risk of developing other diseases) in future.

 

[beorhthelm]

Coincidence is correct. Shock horror surprise, but lockdowns work against Flu and other respiratory diseases that can be caught from other people just as well as it does for Covid.

But yes, accept that there's probably some error in the death cert numbers as well (in particular early on in the Pandemic while the medical folks were getting to grips with it). That error will go both ways - there will be some certs incorrectly not including covid, some incorrectly including it. I still trust the death cert number far more than I'll ever trust the governments completely made up way of measuring it. We *know* for a fact that the government daily number is subject to huge amount of error (not least the fact they had to change it middle of last year to add the 28 days cut off because they were starting to count people who'd had a positive covid test in March then died months later in car accidents and the like). Even then, the 28 day cut off is so arbitrary - there's people who've spent more than 28 days in hospital with Covid, let alone 28 days after a positive test.

Also worth mentioning that there's growing evidence that having had Covid is elevating the risk of dying from a heart attack or stroke (and elevated risk of developing other diseases) in future.

thats good point, and leading to some misinformation. i was only highlighting one arbitrary count over another arbitrary count, neither is particularly reliable. the main thing to say in favour of headline number is consistency. its been an eye opener on how relatively poor and inconsistent data collection is across nations.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

People ask or imagine “what would happen if Corbyn had been in charge”? Well, we don’t know for sure but considering the person that has got in the way the most is Boris Johnson, because he’s a liberalist and doesn’t want to be told what to do or give any bad news, I would say Corbyn would have likely listened to medical advice and had stricter lockdowns, sooner and handled it a lot better. Corbyn isn’t afraid of being unpopular and would have likely handed the reigns largely over to scientists rather than trying to be popular with the electorate.

Let’s just cut through the bullshit; Corbyn would have done a far better job than Boris Johnson. End of.

It’s all arbitrary. “Corbyn would have messed up”. Well, if my grandmother had wheels, she would have been a bicycle. It’s a moot point.
But to suggest nobody could have handled this better than Boris Johnson is simply ludicrous.

Bit of a straw man point. I don’t think anybody has said ‘nobody would have handled this better than Boris Johnson.’ Well, maybe apart from his Mum.

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

Bit of a straw man point. I don’t think anybody has said ‘nobody would have handled this better than Boris Johnson.’ Well, maybe apart from his Mum.

I reckon even his Mum knows he's a complete ****.

 

[zefarelly]

Bit of a straw man point. I don’t think anybody has said ‘nobody would have handled this better than Boris Johnson.’ Well, maybe apart from his Mum.

Thats unlikely, even his g=father thinks he's a bit of a dick

 

[Super Steve Earle]

People ask or imagine “what would happen if Corbyn had been in charge”? Well, we don’t know for sure but considering the person that has got in the way the most is Boris Johnson, because he’s a liberalist and doesn’t want to be told what to do or give any bad news, I would say Corbyn would have likely listened to medical advice and had stricter lockdowns, sooner and handled it a lot better. Corbyn isn’t afraid of being unpopular and would have likely handed the reigns largely over to scientists rather than trying to be popular with the electorate.

Let’s just cut through the bullshit; Corbyn would have done a far better job than Boris Johnson. End of.

It’s all arbitrary. “Corbyn would have messed up”. Well, if my grandmother had wheels, she would have been a bicycle. It’s a moot point.
But to suggest nobody could have handled this better than Boris Johnson is simply ludicrous.

'Corbyn could have handled this better than Boris - he couldn't even get elected

 

[*Gullsworth*]

'Corbyn could have handled this better than Boris - he couldn't even get elected

Nor was Cummings, look how that has turned out for him & his ex boss.

 

[Randy McNob]

'Corbyn could have handled this better than Boris - he couldn't even get elected

may I present exhibit A

 

[The Clamp]

Bit of a straw man point. I don’t think anybody has said ‘nobody would have handled this better than Boris Johnson.’ Well, maybe apart from his Mum.

People on here have categorically stated that nobody could have done a better job, it was an unprecedented situation and nobody would have been prepared. I disagree. But I also accept there’s no way of knowing for sure.

 

[portslade seagull]

may I present exhibit A

View attachment 137266

Maybe you could apply to become his official dresser

 

[drew]

'Corbyn could have handled this better than Boris - he couldn't even get elected

And do you think Johnson would be where he is today if he hadn't got Cummings pulling the strings?

 

[darkwolf666]

counterpoint, having Covid listed as comorbidity isnt reliable either. the threshold is for a doctor who hasnt seen the patient to be told they had covid like symptoms. coincidentally, there's a large fall in influenza and other respiratory diseases the past year.

Not true and an often perpetuated myth...

https://www.themdu.com/guidance-and-advice/latest-updates-and-advice/certifying-deaths-during-covid-19-outbreak

 

[Randy McNob]

Maybe you could apply to become his official dresser

I was hoping someone might raise me with a picture of Corbyn with shoes on the wrong feet or something similar

 

[Raleigh Chopper]

'Corbyn could have handled this better than Boris - he couldn't even get elected

We all know why he was elected and it was nothing to do with being any good at anything.

 

[studio150]

Maybe you could apply to become his official dresser

Lockdown? Ooh, suit you, sir. Locked right down sir. In a dungeon … Ooooh. Our shop has reopened, but it has all changed. You have to wear a mask.

Do you wear a mask, sir? Do you? Does it add a little spice to your life?

Ooh. Do you get your wife to wear a mask and pretend she’s someone else, sir – one of the Kardashians, perhaps, or even Kanye West? We’re all fluid in this modern world, aren’t we, sir, or madam, or non-binary person … I’m not fussy. I like all 227 genders. You can use whatever pronoun you like with me. Ooh, suit you.

 

[GT49er]

People ask or imagine “what would happen if Corbyn had been in charge”? Well, we don’t know for sure but considering the person that has got in the way the most is Boris Johnson, because he’s a liberalist and doesn’t want to be told what to do or give any bad news, I would say Corbyn would have likely listened to medical advice and had stricter lockdowns, sooner and handled it a lot better. Corbyn isn’t afraid of being unpopular and would have likely handed the reigns largely over to scientists rather than trying to be popular with the electorate.

Let’s just cut through the bullshit; Corbyn would have done a far better job than Boris Johnson. End of.

It’s all arbitrary. “Corbyn would have messed up”. Well, if my grandmother had wheels, she would have been a bicycle. It’s a moot point.
But to suggest nobody could have handled this better than Boris Johnson is simply ludicrous.

According to three of my great uncles, your grandmother was a ....................

Well, let's leave that!

As for 'Nobody could have done a better job than Boris Johnson' - I don't think I've ever heard that view expressed. Sure, some people may have guessed better as to which path, or which scientific advice, to take at a particular point - but it would have been pretty much guessing, much as I imagine Johnson did at times.

 

[beorhthelm]

Not true and an often perpetuated myth...

https://www.themdu.com/guidance-and-advice/latest-updates-and-advice/certifying-deaths-during-covid-19-outbreak

the link explains completion death certificate cause. the death certificate also lists comorbidities which may be either underlying or "significant" conditions at time of death, which have lower threshold. theres a bit in there about to the best of the knowledge, and another about verification of death (and by extension determining causes and conditions) being by trained professionals. im not suggesting someone with no other apparent cause of death might be put down with covid because they had a cough.