[Football] Tax Payer funding for EFL cubs.

[Wardy's twin]

How wide does any assistance go.

While we are focused on football clubs, I'm sure there would be calls from Cricket, Rugby (both forms) and other sports, as well as the arts that has already been mentioned.

Perhaps one way of the Government assisting, is to provide loans to clubs who wish to be assisted, but there are strings attached to the loan, in the interest rate is based on division and wages to turnover ratio, so that the higher up the league system, and the higher wages to turnover ratio the higher the interest rate. Plus some form of restriction on transfer fees paid, such as 20% of the transfer fee paid goes to the Government, or reducing the outstanding loan.

This would hopefully avoid any Government funds to be used directly on squad improvement.

Money has been given to certain Fox Hunts which is an absolute disgrace.

 

[Wardy's twin]

If clubs want to have financial support then surely they need to go through a review of their finances to establish exactly why they need the money and how it will be spent to make the club sustainable and if they have been badly run it would be decided to not fund the said club or put them into financial admin (not deducting points) so that they can be checked that they are spending the money wisely.

 

[Weststander]

I suspect bailouts for an industry that pays some of it's employees several hundred pounds a week is a difficult sell. I know that it Premier League level and we are discussing Football League but that is the public perception.

I believe the PL are looking into a bailout to the FL which is probably the way forwards but that does mean Brighton (or Crystal Palace or Burnley) will be giving money to clubs historically roughly at the same level such as Derby and Middlesborough. As some as these clubs haven't been well run it has to come with conditions attached.

At some stage the top earners in the game are going to have to play their part and take a wage cut. There needs to be a deal done with government so the money stays in the game so it doesn't become a case of millionaires giving money to billionaires but I don't think footballers being on 100k a week or more is sustainable in the current climate.

In a global game, I don’t think the ManC and ManU’s of this world will have a wage cap imposed on them, or that top players will take lower far pay. The PL takes in £B’s a year, clubs can afford it.

But Championship clubs as a whole are make eye-watering losses, some players earn a £1m a year. The EFL as a collective cannot carry on like this.

 

[amexer]

For this one off situation PL should help out FL clubs. Certainly below National league level no hand outs and players should not be paid.while no crowds

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

Or the PL could, as Jake Humphrey suggested in his post match interview with Barber yesterday, give the EFL Fulham’s parachute payment that they will no longer require. It’s got to be worth a fair whack and could go a long way to help clubs down the football pyramid. Simple solution really

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

No doubt a number of the usual suspects will disagree but it’s something in the last few days I’ve discussed with a number of football supporting friends.

There’s talk of Government bailouts, ie taxpayers money, as EFL clubs enter financial meltdown connected with the Covid Pandemic, but should the state really prop up businesses that weren’t run properly before Covid?

A plethora of clubs have lived beyond their means for years, chasing success they couldn’t simply afford, regardless of Covid is it right they they get help in front of other businesses that did operate within their means before the pandemic?


As a tax payer I have no qualms with financially viable football clubs being helped at this time, but would you rather see HM Government help Debenhams survive rather than an effectively insolvent championship club with a huge wage bill they couldn’t really afford prior to lockdown?

You may think of me as a usual suspect. Maybe, maybe not

There may be ways for clubs to benefit from their local communities, and this has been discussed at length elsewhere.

However, in essence, I agree with you.

That said, it is neither on the cards nor even coherently mooted as far as I am aware. 'Something needs to be done' doesn't count.

All the best

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Money has been given to certain Fox Hunts which is an absolute disgrace.

Has it? Can you post a link? I would agree - utter disgrace, if so.

I thought fox hunting was still illegal.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

To be honest they should have done this from the outset of the PL, rather than trying to make it a closed shop for the few and sentencing the rest to obscurity.

I'm a left wing mug according to some but I still have trouble getting my head round this. I don't recall Mick Karn (bassis with Japan who fell upon hard times) being bailed out by Snoop Dogg and Robbie Williams.

There is a self interest argument: without Wigan, Brentford etc., where would the Albion get all their players; but we did actually pay for them.

Come on someone, convince me, using something other than self interest, PR value, and, er, common decency, why the Albion should bail out Crawley?

For the record, I agreed with a smart poster on another thread about what should be done. Although I agree with the OP, I'm not sure there is any clamour for tax payer assistance and, rather like his knee taking thread, it seems like another load of old bollocks. Sorry Harty.

 

[Leekbrookgull]

The difficulty I have in government (us) borrowing being increased by £100m’s for EFL clubs, is that some are undeserving imo.

Derby and Massive cheated by injecting multi £10m’s of owners money (on a different level to TB, who always played by FFP), to buy and remunerate players they could not have bought without the cheating. In essence, they have Magic Money Trees. Why should they get one penny of public money, beyond furlough?

Then I’m undecided whether the public should be funding this or the PL.

Bang on the Money.

 

[Poojah]

As a supporter of a struggling, League Two club trying to operate at a fraction of its usual revenue, I've given quite a lot of thought to this recently. Being completely objective about it, I think it's pretty unequivocal that the government (ergo the tax payer) should not be bailing out the EFL (and non-league football).

The reality is this; the government is currently grappling with the greatest peacetime economic crisis of all time whilst trying to prevent the unneccesary deaths of potentially hundreds of thousands of people. Football, my football club, means a lot to me but put into that context it is not that important. What the government is trying to do is limit the number of people losing their jobs. It's easy to forget that EFL clubs are really only small-to-medium sized businesses in terms of the numbers of people they employ; if ten or twenty clubs went bust it would be an absolute tragedy for the game but understandably wouldn't register that high on the government's list of problems to solve.

Then you've got the Premier League. There's so much I don't like about the Premier League and its disproprotionate wealth, not least the fact that it derives the bulk of its money not from genuine fans in this country but directly and indirectly via foreign audiences, the vast majority of whom will never set foot inside an English football stadium. But the Premier League, like any other business, is a product of capitalism, a benefactor of market forces and a succesful case study at that. That's not the fault of the Premier League, in fact its one of its biggest achievements.

Evidently it is more commercially robust than the EFL, but it has not been immune from the economic impact of the pandemic. It is hurting too, and will want to protect its own interests and those of its members; if you take your football hat off for a moment and apply the situation to any other organisation or industry then suddenly that doesn't sound like such an immoral stance to take.

All that said, I don't expect the Premier League to stand idly by and watch lower league football implode. If we did end up with a scenario of multiple clubs becoming extinct, whilst hundreds of millions are spent in transfer fees and player contracts in the background, there's going to be a serious PR storm brewing - something I think they will want to do without.

What 'help' ultimately looks like I think we'll find out soon. I don't expect money to be handed over for nothing, but what I don't want to see is opportunism - for the PL to use this situation as leverage to push ideas through that would be given short shrift at any other time. Things like B-teams in the football league pyramid, no relagation to the Championship and so on. Don't make the homeless man dance for his buckfast.

What the Premier League has, more so than the EFL and much, much more so than individual clubs is the ability to borrow money at an incredibly low cost. Club's like mine, Grimsby, can't borrow a bean right now through conventional means, but the Premier League could do it on their behalf and simply suck up the exposure. For us, a £1m loan borrowed at something close to zero interest, repaid over ten years, would be both a lifesaver and eminently manageable. Of course there's a risk there - lower league clubs are not renowned for making great debtors, but provided guarantees are provided which ensure any loans provided make a given club sufficiently viable then I see that risk as very low in the big scheme of things.

Some clubs may need more support than others, but the concept of a loan based system means that clubs should be able to 'apply' for whatever amount they need - everyone has to pay it back. If that amount dictates that repayments would be overbearing or unviable, that probably smacks of problems that were present before Covid arrived and this bailout in whatever shape it takes should absolutely not be expected to paper over those cracks.

Just my thoughts anyway - I hope there's a sensible resolution one way or another. Irrespective of what I wrote above about football club's being relaitively insignificant in the broader context of the economy, they are undeniably crucial pillars of our community and each one lost during this difficult period will be an absolute tragedy.

 

[yxee]

Nope. The government has absolutely no place running or part owning a bunch of lower League football clubs.

 

[e77]

In a global game, I don’t think the ManC and ManU’s of this world will have a wage cap imposed on them, or that top players will take lower far pay. The PL takes in £B’s a year, clubs can afford it.

But Championship clubs as a whole are make eye-watering losses, some players earn a £1m a year. The EFL as a collective cannot carry on like this.

I think the Premier League teams will get through this but before the game at any level goes near to asking the government for money they top players are going to have to take a wage cut. That said it probably won't happen so they won't get any money.

Below Premier League level it is soon going to get messy.

 

[Wardy's twin]

Has it? Can you post a link? I would agree - utter disgrace, if so.

I thought fox hunting was still illegal.

https://focusingonwildlife.com/news...ith-50000-cash-to-survive-coronavirus-crisis/

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...iness-loan-taxpayer-funding-ban-a9699621.html

There are other incidents

Fox hunting with a pack of dogs is illegal but apparently the law does not apply to people who know /fund the Tory party. It continues with the support of many leading Tories (including actual attendance ) and the connivance of the police (again one or two senior police actually part take). It is all dressed up as trail hunting but you need to set trails to be followed which doesn't happen. There is also the practise of 'cubbing' which hppens this time of the year where less experienced , young foxes born during the year are hunted by younger dogs to development. Often foxes are captured alive so that they can be released just ahead of the hounds. Very similar to releasing grouse/pheasants in front of a row of guns or has been documented more recently , the releasing of caged lions so that they can be shot . I have no issue with people killing an animal swiftly for food but to do it for fun is not acceptable.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

https://focusingonwildlife.com/news...ith-50000-cash-to-survive-coronavirus-crisis/

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...iness-loan-taxpayer-funding-ban-a9699621.html

There are other incidents

Fox hunting with a pack of dogs is illegal but apparently the law does not apply to people who know /fund the Tory party. It continues with the support of many leading Tories (including actual attendance ) and the connivance of the police (again one or two senior police actually part take). It is all dressed up as trail hunting but you need to set trails to be followed which doesn't happen. There is also the practise of 'cubbing' which hppens this time of the year where less experienced , young foxes born during the year are hunted by younger dogs to development. Often foxes are captured alive so that they can be released just ahead of the hounds. Very similar to releasing grouse/pheasants in front of a row of guns or has been documented more recently , the releasing of caged lions so that they can be shot . I have no issue with people killing an animal swiftly for food but to do it for fun is not acceptable.

I say this with full commitment: The dirtys b'stards. Seriously.

I'd love to see Boris stripped naked in a wood somewhere, smeared with offal and given a 2 minutes start before a pack of hounds was set loose on him.

 

[El Presidente]

This is what’s happened to Championship wages and losses in recent years.

Clubs need a sanity check, not a bail out. Clubs in the division have lost £1.1 million a day for the last six years, but they’re asking for more money as it’s “not their fault”.

 

[portlock seagull]

I think the Premier League teams will get through this but before the game at any level goes near to asking the government for money they top players are going to have to take a wage cut. That said it probably won't happen so they won't get any money.

Below Premier League level it is soon going to get messy.

People been saying this forever though. Football is the most odd business model, the most tribal sport and the most disunited and dysfunctional of any industry. Even family mafias cooperate better. Football clubs are continually cutting each other’s throats, always wanting more, and if somebody dies along the way it’s just crocodile tears before others scrap over the carcass. Seriously, football is perhaps on the brink this time. But it’s also the sport that ate itself despite having a hundred chances to sort itself out. It sold its soul, lost its integrity and died as a sporting contest in the last century. If it collapses, and I don’t think it will incidentally, that might even be a positive force for change. Real change.

 

[beorhthelm]

This is what’s happened to Championship wages and losses in recent years.

Clubs need a sanity check, not a bail out. Clubs in the division have lost £1.1 million a day for the last six years, but they’re asking for more money as it’s “not their fault”.

stark picture. how many likely going bust with in the season without gate revenue?

 

[Wardy's twin]

I say this with full commitment: The dirtys b'stards. Seriously.

I'd love to see Boris stripped naked in a wood somewhere, smeared with offal and given a 2 minutes start before a pack of hounds was set loose on him.

he would probably enjoy it.

Dirty bastar*s is an understatement they really are vile scum a phrase often miss used to describe some other football fans.

 

[El Presidente]

I say this with full commitment: The dirtys b'stards. Seriously.

I'd love to see Boris stripped naked in a wood somewhere, smeared with offal and given a 2 minutes start before a pack of hounds was set loose on him.

That’s a tough w@nk


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Lenny Rider]

This is what’s happened to Championship wages and losses in recent years.

Clubs need a sanity check, not a bail out. Clubs in the division have lost £1.1 million a day for the last six years, but they’re asking for more money as it’s “not their fault”.

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Thanks El Pres.

So who in their right mind would sanction government money to bail out these business who clearly don't operate effectively?