[Albion] Which players aren’t good enough for the Graham Potter revolution?

[dingodan]

If you were Dan Ashworth and TB gave you another great budget this summer, with the aim of finishing 9th to 12th next season, would you listen to offers for:
Propper
Gross
Montoya
Mooy

I'd keep Propper and Mooy, although Propper has taken a few steps back after seemingly getting to grips with the PL, he needs to sharpen up. Mooy is great IMO.

Montoya really has to go. Gross could probably do a job, but not as a regular starter.

I think on recent displays it's become clear that we need to replace Stephens.

I'd be looking to find replacements for:

Montoya (Just not good enough)

Stephens (Not composed enough with the ball, too strong (and late) in the challenge too often)

March (He isn't going to make it is he...)

Jahanbhanksh? (Difficult one. When he has played he has done pretty well. If it is just the case that he isn't doing what is neccessary to compete for a regular place, isn't strong or quick enough etc then it's probably time to free up those wages and that place. I'd be happy to see him stay, but not another season barely playing)

Connolly (perhaps could do with a season loan in the Championship?)

 

[albionalex]

Yes, because I suppose "holding midfielders" should be utterly INCAPABLE of doing anything else other than putting a foot in, playing 5 yard passes then planting it to the opposition, or twatting it into touch. Because thats pretty much all we get from DP and Stephens.

I'm going to quote Graham Souness from the Sunday Times this week, who was talking about "holding midfielders", in particular Jorginho and Kovacic, who he'd never have to keep an eye on, because they'd never be off running in behind him.

"Please don't tell me they play holding or defensive roles. Anyone who aspires to play in the middle of the park should have the FULL facet of skills - tackling, passing, shooting and finishing - and be looking to use them at all times. The footballer who is looking to embed himself into a deeper role is withdrawing into his comfort zone, and betraying himself as a midfielder".

I could not see a better description of our herberts in the midfield. They don't threaten, they don't arrive in the box, they don't finish. Oh - but they're "holding midfielders", so they get a free pass.

Bollocks.

Yes, because goals and assists is what holding midfielders should be judged on.

 

[Easy 10]

Yes, because goals and assists is what holding midfielders should be judged on.

Is there an echo in here with you? Boing.

So you're just absolving both Stephens and Propper (our primary CM partnership) from ever having any creative involvement ? Lets just LOAD the team with players who hold back. Bung on an extra couple of CBs maybe.

I want to see them doing more. Our scoring rates from midfield are PITIFUL - but apparently its ok, because Dale and Dave are always busy on the halfway line playing 5-yarders sideways.

Propper has a silky touch at times, no disputing. But I can't remember the last cuffing time it actually ever LEAD to anything.

They're passengers.

 

[albionalex]

Is there an echo in here with you? Boing.

So you're just absolving both Stephens and Propper (our primary CM partnership) from ever having any creative involvement ? Lets just LOAD the team with players who hold back. Bung on an extra couple of CBs maybe.

I want to see them doing more. Our scoring rates from midfield are PITIFUL - but apparently its ok, because Dale and Dave are always busy on the halfway line playing 5-yarders sideways.

Propper has a silky touch at times, no disputing. But I can't remember the last cuffing time it actually ever LEAD to anything.

They're passengers.

No, Stephens and Propper could and should contribute more. And personally, I would move on from Stephens this summer.

However, goals and assists are not the reason they are selected and should not be judged on them.

FYI, as you can see below, that's a lot of passes that aren't sideways.

 

[lizard]

No, Stephens and Propper could and should contribute more. And personally, I would move on from Stephens this summer.

However, goals and assists are not the reason they are selected and should not be judged on them.

FYI, as you can see below, that's a lot of passes that aren't sideways.

View attachment 126320

So, really what you're saying is we shouldn't have let Norwood go?

 

[OzMike]

So, really what you're saying is we shouldn't have let Norwood go?

About sums it up.

 

[keaton]

Is there an echo in here with you? Boing.


I want to see them doing more. Our scoring rates from midfield are PITIFUL - but apparently its ok, because Dale and Dave are always busy on the halfway line playing 5-yarders sideways.

.

Sideways? I wish they were that attacking

 

[sparkie]

So, really what you're saying is we shouldn't have let Norwood go?

He'd probably have thrived under Potter.

 

[HalfaSeatOn]

How can you say we won't be top 10 next season when a shit Palace side were 9th after 30 games? Watford wereTop 10 last season and could get relegated this season. Yes, top eight very unlikely but 9th or 10th definitely achievable wth Lamptey and White for a whole season.

Just can't see it next season. Think things will evolve. Can see us sustaining a top 10 place in 3 years. Improving quality year on year and academy players coming through will help achieve the ambition.

 

[DJ NOBO]

Good bounce. This should have happened after Saints but better late than never........(sorry lads)

I feel a bit hard done by being put alongside the OTM quote In the hall of shame !

 

[Icy Gull]

I think we need to keep Stephens, he has bolstered the midfield when playing since lockdown and we need a no nonsense midfielder. I see him more as a squad player than a guaranteed starter though. I imagine he has a future here as long as he doesn’t expect to start too many games.

 

[Bold Seagull]

So, really what you're saying is we shouldn't have let Norwood go?

This a really important point though. Players can have it in their locker to take their ability to another level in the right circumstances, environment, tactics, confidence etc.

I wouldn’t have picked Norwood over Stephens and Kayal in the Championship (although I did rate him highly for us), and wouldn’t necessarily have thought he would have such an impact in the PL.

Tactics have changed from the days the likes of Souness, Robson, Keane, Viera etc. would maraud around the pitch holding and scoring goals. The game has moved on, security in front of the CBs is paramount in allowing fullbacks far more freedom to add width. In the days of those players full backs were defenders first and foremost, now we’re seeing modern day full backs at the top of assists and even goal charts.

What we do need though is when you do employ that absolute holding player, goals and assists have to come from elsewhere. Other than Trossard chipping in with goals and assists, creation of chances from wide areas is still lacking.

Going to be interesting to see what Potter prioritises.

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

I feel a bit hard done by being put alongside the OTM quote In the hall of shame !

[emoji23][emoji23]
Yes, not even sure yours was a big criticism as such.

Doesn’t mean we’re wrong though.....

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[The Birdman]

Have faith in (Harry )Potter He’s magic
I don’t think it works just paying silly money �� like Villa but I hope Norwich come back up stronger than when they went down.
However do they have any young players we can poach.

 

[DJ NOBO]

[emoji23][emoji23]
Yes, not even sure yours was a big criticism as such.

Doesn’t mean we’re wrong though.....

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I stand by my view, great save though it was.

 

[Machiavelli]

If you were Dan Ashworth and TB gave you another great budget this summer, with the aim of finishing 9th to 12th next season, would you listen to offers for:
Propper
Gross
Montoya
Mooy

I think [MENTION=38333]Swansman[/MENTION] has again offered some decent analysis on this, as to your question:
-- yes, if we get a decent offer but selling him would mean that we'll need to get a better alternative -- not easy
-- I can't see the value of having Gross, Mooy and Mac Allister in the squad, chuck in Lallana too, and one will absolutely have to go and, unfortunately, Pascal would be prime candidate
-- I think that, alongside Webster and White filling in, Montoya will be decent back-up to Lamptey at right back. We can't do too much this window (which was Swans' main point), and I wouldn't be prioritising targeting a back-up right back
-- we only signed him six months ago, highly unlikely

 

[Machiavelli]

So, really what you're saying is we shouldn't have let Norwood go?

Exactly but, according to NSC logic, because at that point Stephens was imperious in the Championship, Sidwell had nous, and Kayal provided bite, dynamism and physicality, then we had to have a pop at Norwood.
Norwood was quite obviously a serious talent, one of the most underrated players we've had at the Amex. He performs better in a midfield three, however, as he's demonstrating this season. We played a midfield two then, so his qualities didn't shine as brightly.

 

[Stat Brother]

If you were Dan Ashworth and TB gave you another great budget this summer, with the aim of finishing 9th to 12th next season, would you listen to offers for:
Propper
Gross
Montoya
Mooy

You don't take 4 first team starters out of your squad and also expect finishing 9th to 12th next season.

The club might look to 'Montoya' them for half or a full season, before moving them on, but they're going nowhere this summer, esp with 5 substitutes for next season as well.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

This a really important point though. Players can have it in their locker to take their ability to another level in the right circumstances, environment, tactics, confidence etc.

I wouldn’t have picked Norwood over Stephens and Kayal in the Championship (although I did rate him highly for us), and wouldn’t necessarily have thought he would have such an impact in the PL.

Tactics have changed from the days the likes of Souness, Robson, Keane, Viera etc. would maraud around the pitch holding and scoring goals. The game has moved on, security in front of the CBs is paramount in allowing fullbacks far more freedom to add width. In the days of those players full backs were defenders first and foremost, now we’re seeing modern day full backs at the top of assists and even goal charts.

What we do need though is when you do employ that absolute holding player, goals and assists have to come from elsewhere. Other than Trossard chipping in with goals and assists, creation of chances from wide areas is still lacking.

Going to be interesting to see what Potter prioritises.

The wide areas point is an interesting one but Potter rarely plays with out and out wingers. More generally, we need more creativity and goals from our attacking midfielders. Groß, Mooy and Ali J have only scored 2 goals each all season. They should all be at least doubling that. Propper has only got one and March hasn’t scored at all. This has got to change next season, whoever is in the team.

 

[Wardy's twin]

The wide areas point is an interesting one but Potter rarely plays with out and out wingers. More generally, we need more creativity and goals from our attacking midfielders. Groß, Mooy and Ali J have only scored 2 goals each all season. They should all be at least doubling that. Propper has only got one and March hasn’t scored at all. This has got to change next season, whoever is in the team.

To be fair to Ali J he has hardly played. At the turn of the year he got some game time , scored twice and then pretty much disappeared again.