[Politics] The General Election Thread

[Simster]

The first referendum was a fudge, Brexit is a fudge. Politics cannot be run across a 52-48 division. He is paying the price, but Labour's policy is a way of resolving the impasse. As a remainer myself, I don't want to just see Brexit cancelled on a vote ignored. Even though that is what I ultimately want, it is not a satisfactorily democratic solution.

Both deals negotiated by the Tories have been unsatisfactory, both to hardliners and those wanting a soft exit. The only course that would prevent any kind of border is a customs union exit that Labour has proposed since 2017. I actually think it is reasonable for Labour to negotiate a soft exit then put it to the people and we decide if Brexit is what we want. If in the unlikely event Labour do somehow win, then that is a democratic endorsement for a soft deal negotiation and the people decide whether after all we have seen we still want out or to remain in.

People might not like it, want a binary position from Corbyn, but actually it is the only position that could genuinely ensure that if we do leave, it is endorsed, if we stay it went back to the people.

Even as a remainer, I couldn't vote Lib Dem because I cannot see the country moving forward ignoring the referendum. I couldn't vote Tory, well, for a list too long to type out...

All fair, but I just feel Labour would have been better served by advocating a Brexit-position that meant an arrangement where we stayed in a customs union. We are not Norway, we have to stay in a customs union because we have spent 50 years building an economy where components pass back and forth over the channel without attracting tariffs. If we don't have this, jobs will be lost.

I am a remainer but I too am uncomfortable with a democratic vote being ignored. I just think it is the lesser of two evils cancelling the whole thing to secure jobs because Labour's policy is so difficult to explain to the electorate.

 

[Bakero]

wasn't there are policy for compulsory purchase of property left un-occupied for more than 6mths?

Labour: "Houses should be lived in"

Tory: "People should be evicted from houses and forced to live in tents while doing slave labour from dawn till dusk"

 

[hans kraay fan club]

wasn't there are policy for compulsory purchase of property left un-occupied for more than 6mths?

Trying to stem the flow of foreigners buying houses and leaving them stood empty for years, as investments, in a country with an acute housing shortage?

The lefty ********

 

[Bold Seagull]

All fair, but I just feel Labour would have been better served by advocating a Brexit-position that meant an arrangement where we stayed in a customs union. We are not Norway, we have to stay in a customs union because we have spent 50 years building an economy where components pass back and forth over the channel without attracting tariffs. If we don't have this, jobs will be lost.

I am a remainer but I too am uncomfortable with a democratic vote being ignored. I just think it is the lesser of two evils cancelling the whole thing to secure jobs because Labour's policy is so difficult to explain to the electorate.

I think we know Corbyn also would have preferred to campaign on that basis and not for a 2nd referendum. The 2nd referendum is the democratic will of the Labour Party. He is trying to sell his leadership style as one that listens, not dictates. That maybe unpalatable to some, but when we're desperate for a new style of politics, less adversarial conflict, it is clear that actually although the public and media say that's what they want, it appears they don't. They do want some form of authoritarianism, which to my mind is a shame, and will only take politics further down partisanship.

 

[Wardy's twin]

I think we know Corbyn also would have preferred to campaign on that basis and not for a 2nd referendum. The 2nd referendum is the democratic will of the Labour Party. He is trying to sell his leadership style as one that listens, not dictates. That maybe unpalatable to some, but when we're desperate for a new style of politics, less adversarial conflict, it is clear that actually although the public and media say that's what they want, it appears they don't. They do want some form of authoritarianism, which to my mind is a shame, and will only take politics further down partisanship.

unfortunately that comes across as sitting on the fence and that is why after 3 years of non-action a lot of people will vote for Johnson. What he needed to do was be more definitive ab out the situation 3 years ago. He has also been tarred with his links with terrorists and a more extreme left Labour group who are calling the shots in the party. The first is unfortunate but probably less important the second will not go down well with Middle England who prefer a softer Labour party.

 

[beorhthelm]

Labour: "Houses should be lived in"

point is there is such a policy, not the merits of it.
yes houses should be lived in. how about people that are long term ill, out of country or waiting for sale, awaiting planning? there seems an assumption that people sit on a valuable housing stock doing nothing, when there is likely good reason for a property not occupied for such a long time. there is property being bought as investment, they will probably be occupied except some edge cases. do we want policy driven by a few hundred flats? we need proper housing policy.

 

[Lever]

Corbyn had SUBSTANCE?

Is he in or out?

I am not a Corbyn supporter, far from it; but it does seem reasonable to me that if he is intending to offer a further Referendum and genuinely 'letting the people decide', he might do worse than keep his own preferences to himself and be neutral...

It isn't a great rallying cry but I don't think it is the 'vacuum' claimed by his lying counterpart and endorsed by his acolytes.

 

[wellquickwoody]

Unfortunately there are lots of utter ****wits who would happily plunge the U.K. into economic chaos and allow the Tory party to continue robbing from the poor and giving to the rich, simply because JC’s spectacles were slightly askew.
This country is populated by Brexit voting, Tory loving, daily mail reading *****.

You do realise that if Labour do not win the election that they have lost by the agreed rules? That makes them losers. But you don’t like it? Aww......diddums.........

 

[beorhthelm]

People might not like it, want a binary position from Corbyn, but actually it is the only position that could genuinely ensure that if we do leave, it is endorsed, if we stay it went back to the people.

what Corbyn is being called out for is a policy that he wont commit to himself, that Labour will negotiate a new deal then he'll sit out the campaign.

 

[Lever]

You do realise that if Labour do not win the election that they have lost by the agreed rules? That makes them losers. But you don’t like it? Aww......diddums.........

What stopped you from being an 'ardent Remainer'? I missed your answer to that.....

 

[wellquickwoody]

Style is more important than substance eh?

Never mind

1/10

A lack of awareness about presentation does not do anyone any favours. You know, those kids at school that were really nice guys, but never ever got a girlfriend. That’s Jezza, apart from if you count the really, really thick girl that couldn’t even count.

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

It would be absolutely BONKERS if Corbyn was to come out and say how he would vote/campaign in a second referendum. I'm genuinely STAGGERED people want to know or think he should declare it.

Have we learnt nothing from the last few years?

Let him go to the EU and negotiate a deal he can work with. Put it to the people, stay completely neutral and then work with the outcome. It's so simple. He still would have every need to negotiate the best deal he can as it may well be what he needs to run with.

Why would he declare his stance Imagine if his 'side' 'lost'. What would people demand? that's right. Resignation and then and then and then.....

 

[Lever]

A lack of awareness about presentation does not do anyone any favours. You know, those kids at school that were really nice guys, but never ever got a girlfriend. That’s Jezza, apart from if you count the really, really thick girl that couldn’t even count.

If you compare presenting for the highest office with putting out for a girlfriend then with Johnson's track record on that he wins, no doubt.
But most people realise that their fate would be better guided by more serious attributes... and I am no Corbyn supporter. Your characterisation of a good leader may be entirely different of course.....

 

[Bozza]

It would be absolutely BONKERS if Corbyn was to come out and say how he would vote/campaign in a second referendum. I'm genuinely STAGGERED people want to know or think he should declare it.

Have we learnt nothing from the last few years?

Let him go to the EU and negotiate a deal he can work with. Put it to the people, stay completely neutral and then work with the outcome. It's so simple. He still would have every need to negotiate the best deal he can as it may well be what he needs to run with.

Why would he declare his stance Imagine if his 'side' 'lost'. What would people demand? that's right. Resignation and then and then and then.....

I'm really not sure it's an issue now. By sitting on the fence for so long, he has given himself little chance of enacting anything at all.

I completely get that it's a case of "damned if you do, damned if you don't".

 

[hans kraay fan club]

It would be absolutely BONKERS if Corbyn was to come out and say how he would vote/campaign in a second referendum. I'm genuinely STAGGERED people want to know or think he should declare it.

Have we learnt nothing from the last few years?

Let him go to the EU and negotiate a deal he can work with. Put it to the people, stay completely neutral and then work with the outcome. It's so simple. He still would have every need to negotiate the best deal he can as it may well be what he needs to run with.

Why would he declare his stance Imagine if his 'side' 'lost'. What would people demand? that's right. Resignation and then and then and then.....

Pretty much how I see it.

The stance surely should be:

1. Go and negotiate the very best POSSIBLE deal. Not a fantasy, but the best achievable agreement.
2. Put that deal to a second vote.
3. As an individual voter, he should then vote for whichever of, the agreed deal or Remain, he feels is the best outcome for the country. He shouldn't be expected to know which of those he would vote for, when one of the two options is as yet undefined.

What is the alternative? Are his opponents suggesting that he should vote for one pre-determined thing, even if the outcome of negotiations is such that he feels voting the other way was in the nation's interest?

Bizarre.

 

[Springal]

[tweet]1196808298810531842[/tweet]

What a fine specimen of a human being

 

[hans kraay fan club]

A lack of awareness about presentation does not do anyone any favours..

Whilst this is a fair enough point in general, I'm struggling with supporters of BORIS ****ING JOHNSON using it as a stick with which to beat an opponent. The man is an absolute physical and sartorial shambles.

 

[DFL JCL]

Yesterday's debate was depressing. It is a sorry state of affairs when the two people presented before us are the best this country has to offer. 3 if you count the presenter. Boris is totally untrustworthy and Jeremy doesn't have the capability to capitalize on it.

 

[Yoda]

And there was me thinking you were bright.

Nothing to do with wearing spectacles, just how you wear them in a TV debate where image is, as experts will tell, quite an important ingredient.

Never mind.

3/10.

Whilst there's you kicking a man for having a medical condition. Bravo!!!

-9/10

 

[nicko31]

Yesterday's debate was depressing. It is a sorry state of affairs when the two people presented before us are the best this country has to offer. 3 if you count the presenter. Boris is totally untrustworthy and Jeremy doesn't have the capability to capitalize on it.

That sums it up in a nutshell, there so much about Johnson's track record and trust that Corbyn could have exposed, missed an open goal.

Whether Swinson will be given the chance to go after him remains to be seen.