[Politics] Giving Up Flying vs "The Plane Is Going Anyway"

[Thunder Bolt]

Train is quicker and much greener than a car.

The fact is that if people from Northern Europe want to holiday in Southern Europe, they need to be encouraged to use the train by making it cheaper.

True. The French have an auto train to take your car whilst you take the normal SNCF train, or hire a car when you reach the Riviera.

 

[beorhthelm]

There are technological solutions to all of these problems, even flying.

what are they? to be in the market ready for wholesale adoption in the next decade they need to be in production now, not in the lab or clever bods minds.

fact is the only tech that can cover the energy requirement is nuclear and everyone is shit scared of pushing that. solar, wind can provide alot of anergy but cant store it. every known method of energy storage is high environment impact, inefficent, or inherent risks. its not good saying there are technology solutions, not everything scales once out of the lab. you cant just hope R&D will present a solution.

electric cars are a perfect example, basic production is OK for a compromised alternative, still has many problems that wont be researched away, unless we make ground breaking advances in physics. science has looked at this for decades with only incremental improvement, not the exponential increase in battery capacity required.

 

[GT49er]

I would give up flying - if I could.....................






...........unfortunately, as I've never started, and don't want to, I can't.

 

[Saunders]

Yep.
We live in such a contradictory world at the moment. We're all constantly being told we need to be cutting down on meat, packaging, waste, flying, etc.

Yet at the same time takeaway companies like Just Eat are hugely on the rise. Companies like Amazon and Hello Fresh are also massively on the rise with the shocking amount of packaging they use. Supermarkets etc seem to be doing the sum total of fvck all to reduce packaging bar charge 10p for a bag. We're eating more and more and wasting more and more. Adverts that encourage consumerism have been rising for years - Christmas adverts already and there's still fireworks going off outside. Heathrow and other airports are looking at expanding.

We're completely ****ed, frankly, unless the next generation can invent methods to combat climate change that don't involve us having to bother changing our habits.

Or keep ignoring the Elephant in the room of population increase.

 

[BN41Albion]

Or keep ignoring the Elephant in the room of population increase.

Yeah, that too.

 

[Winker]

We're not going to convince people to get out of cars or forego central heating, obviously.

We don't need to go back to the stone age to defeat climate change, we just need to reduce or completely stop our use of fossil fuels.

There are technological solutions to all of these problems, even flying. Electric cars and boilers are now a reality, and sustainable if we continue our utilisation of renewable energy.

Flying without combustion is a greater technological problem, but it is very possible and within our reach. It just needs major investment into its R&D, which again, requires government intervention, like what has happened with the drive towards electric cars and renewable energy.

I grew up in a home without a car or central heating, it was called the 1960's. We just had an anthracite boiler in the kitchen to provide hot water and an open fire in the sitting room to keep us warm in the evening. During the winter we used to wake up in the morning with ice on the inside of our bedroom windows where our condensation from breathing had frozen.

The answer to travel in the future is hydrogen, every government on the planet today should be pooling resources to try and develop a way of producing a safe and usable form of hydrogen for our energy needs. Don't hold your breath.

 

[Saunders]

I grew up in a home without a car or central heating, it was called the 1960's. We just had an anthracite boiler in the kitchen to provide hot water and an open fire in the sitting room to keep us warm in the evening. During the winter we used to wake up in the morning with ice on the inside of our bedroom windows where our condensation from breathing had frozen.

The answer to travel in the future is hydrogen, every government on the planet today should be pooling resources to try and develop a way of producing a safe and usable form of hydrogen for our energy needs. Don't hold your breath.

This and we had a small dust bin which had waste in it. We had a rag and bone man come round with his horse and cart who would take any tat. Tinkers came to repair pots/pans and sharpen knives. There were three cars in our street. Kids collected the horse shit for manure.

Still remember helping mum light the fire in the morning with ice on the inside of our windows. Yet apparently this generation is the most green

 

[Winker]

This and we had a small dust bin which had waste in it. We had a rag and bone man come round with his horse and cart who would take any tat. Tinkers came to repair pots/pans and sharpen knives. There were three cars in our street. Kids collected the horse shit for manure.

Still remember helping mum light the fire in the morning with ice on the inside of our windows. Yet apparently this generation is the most green

Yep, and we got 3d back on our empty bottles of Corona fizz. Where's Greta when you need her?

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Just make the tickets more expensive (green tax). Just enough to keep the chavs off the flights. Win win.


View attachment 116972

Charge VAT on tickets. Wouldn't even be a green tax, just a normal tax

 

[cloud]

True. The French have an auto train to take your car whilst you take the normal SNCF train, or hire a car when you reach the Riviera.

Even these are gradually closing. Make the most of them while they still exist ... https://www.seat61.com/Motorail.htm

 

[mikeyjh]

Is face to face meeting so vital in these days of video conferencing?

No, it's really not - I was a very regular long haul business traveller (at the front of the plane, humble brag territory I know but it's multiples on the impact) and took a decision a couple of years back to knock it on the head for 2 reasons, 1) It is so so wasteful, just a massive waste of resources and money 2) I wondered WTF I was doing spending all that time of mine at airports, away from home etc etc. Since I started to refuse to travel, it was no problem at all, things got done, projects went forward. I definitely miss not meeting and spending time with some of my colleagues but small price to pay right? Most business travel is utterly non essential but there is a consensus of people who will convince that is is necessary as they seem to get a buzz from it (and a load of air miles....)

 

[Guinness Boy]

No, it's really not - I was a very regular long haul business traveller (at the front of the plane, humble brag territory I know but it's multiples on the impact) and took a decision a couple of years back to knock it on the head for 2 reasons, 1) It is so so wasteful, just a massive waste of resources and money 2) I wondered WTF I was doing spending all that time of mine at airports, away from home etc etc. Since I started to refuse to travel, it was no problem at all, things got done, projects went forward. I definitely miss not meeting and spending time with some of my colleagues but small price to pay right? Most business travel is utterly non essential but there is a consensus of people who will convince that is is necessary as they seem to get a buzz from it (and a load of air miles....)

That's a total over simplification. If you are working with a culture that demands face to face meetings (Japan), working with a site in a time zone a long way away (most of Asia Pac), doing pre-sales or demonstrating a product you very obviously have to travel if you want the business. Mid-project to iron out a few bumps in the same time zone? VC is fine.

Some customers will also want an SME on site regularly which is why I find myself in Edinburgh a lot at the moment.

 

[zefarelly]

No, it's really not - I was a very regular long haul business traveller (at the front of the plane, humble brag territory I know but it's multiples on the impact) and took a decision a couple of years back to knock it on the head for 2 reasons, 1) It is so so wasteful, just a massive waste of resources and money 2) I wondered WTF I was doing spending all that time of mine at airports, away from home etc etc. Since I started to refuse to travel, it was no problem at all, things got done, projects went forward. I definitely miss not meeting and spending time with some of my colleagues but small price to pay right? Most business travel is utterly non essential but there is a consensus of people who will convince that is is necessary as they seem to get a buzz from it (and a load of air miles....)

I used to do a lot of this, flying all over the uk for a 2 hr meeting, and Europe, US, India, Romania etc etc. . . . As well as upward of 25000 miles In a car some years. Now I'm reluctant to go much further than the bottom of the garden! In my 20's it was all and adventure, and for technological reasons some of it was necessary. Now a majority of it is totally unnecessary. Cars are as bad as flying though. Most of them are more than double the size they need to be and have 4 empty seats.

I went for a job interview recently, near Atherington, to,sit at a desk using a computer to draw pictures. Something I could do at home, or anywhere TBH as long as I had a computer. In reality a trip to the office/factory twice a week would probably make sense, but spending a whole working day every week in a traffic jam is not the way forward.

 

[Bakero]

Piers Corbyn thinks it's a load of bollox

So does the bloke who sells tissues outside my local supermarket. Who do we trust though? Piers Corbyn and tissue man or the global scientific community. It's a tough one.

 

[mikeyjh]

I used to do a lot of this, flying all over the uk for a 2 hr meeting, and Europe, US, India, Romania etc etc. . . . As well as upward of 25000 miles In a car some years. Now I'm reluctant to go much further than the bottom of the garden! In my 20's it was all and adventure, and for technological reasons some of it was necessary. Now a majority of it is totally unnecessary. Cars are as bad as flying though. Most of them are more than double the size they need to be and have 4 empty seats.

I went for a job interview recently, near Atherington, to,sit at a desk using a computer to draw pictures. Something I could do at home, or anywhere TBH as long as I had a computer. In reality a trip to the office/factory twice a week would probably make sense, but spending a whole working day every week in a traffic jam is not the way forward.

Quite - It was all really exciting when you were young right! Then at some point you realise it's largely pointless. Agreed on cars as well, which is why I, like you, prefer not to venture beyond the garden

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

It's got stupidly cheap to fly. In January I flew to Lapland for FIFTY QUID RETURN. Didn't need to go there. Would never in a million years have gone there at scheduled airline prices. Had a really excellent time, some one-off memorable experiences, tho doubt I'd ever really have missed NOT going. But I was at a loose end and ... The Plane Was Going Anyway. What can you do?

 

[GT49er]

I grew up in a home without a car or central heating, it was called the 1960's. We just had an anthracite boiler in the kitchen to provide hot water and an open fire in the sitting room to keep us warm in the evening.

Still remember helping mum light the fire in the morning with ice on the inside of our windows. Yet apparently this generation is the most green

And those cosy fires were so good for the environment?

 

[London Irish]

Governments must take the lead in investing in super high speed trans continental railway with big capacity. Short haul flights must be phased out but government has to organise this, not consumers. Vote for parties that give a shit about the environment and public transport

 

[beorhthelm]

Charge VAT on tickets. Wouldn't even be a green tax, just a normal tax

what happens when they are filling up outside the EU?

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Short haul flights must be phased out but government has to organise this, not consumers.

This, completely. Makes no sense on any level for budget airlines to fly stag parties halfway across Europe for the aviation equivalent of thruppence. Maybe give every citizen a cheap flight mileage allowance or something, after which the Air Passenger Duty rises to eye-watering levels. Not rocket science. Not even close.