The Jeremy Corbyn thread

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Or:

Corbyn is lifelong anti EU, for well documented reasons. Any need to mention them yet again? And he’s playing the people:

a) In the huge Brexit swathes of England and Wales, often Labour or marginal constituencies, he’s intimating he’s on their side. AND

b) In the metropolitan Remain constituencies, with Starmer he’s doing the exact opposite.

Will that be exposed at the next GE ballot box?

Indeed. Corbyn seems to have decided that we can have a vote on anything now, and whoever wins dictates policy. Meanwhile he sits on the fence. What happened to the firebrand lefty that galvanized and lead Britain's left wing for over 40 years, rolling back the clammy hand of Capital?*

*Oh hang on. He was a pissy back bencher who lead nothing and opoosed everything with his ineffectiver votes against his own pary again and again, that counted for nothing and achieved nothing.

A man of consistent impact (i.e., none whatsoever).

Still....even after a lifetime of failure and no prospect of improvement, he's better than Boris.

 

[beorhthelm]

just listening to the wish list of green deal, what a wonderful communist... i mean community future Corbyn's Labour will bring. i wonder when they will work out it'll remove more jobs from industry, then created from new windfarms? GMB union got it.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Still voted Tory

Mmmm....yeah . . . .even I never did that....ever...and never would....I don't think....no, no I wouldn't. A bit like buying a ticket in the Holmsdale to give a cheeky bit of for the Alice.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

just listening to the wish list of green deal, what a wonderful communist... i mean community future Corbyn's Labour will bring. i wonder when they will work out it'll remove more jobs from industry, then created from new windfarms? GMB union got it.

No compromise with the electorate!

Still better than Boris though

 

[Bakero]

just listening to the wish list of green deal, what a wonderful communist... i mean community future Corbyn's Labour will bring. i wonder when they will work out it'll remove more jobs from industry, then created from new windfarms? GMB union got it.

All the major parties agree we need to drastically reduce emissions, just the timeframes differ. Labour 2030, Libs 2045, Cons 2050.

To meet any of those targets we need radical policies.

 

[Gritt23]

It was in their 1983 manifesto.

Which would be where the anti-Labour feeling came from I guess. But I joined the school in Sept 1983, Labour had lost, and lost badly, barely ahead of the Liberals in terms of popular vote, so I don't feel (in hindsight) we were ever in that much danger of seeing the policy coming in.

 

[Bakero]

Which would be where the anti-Labour feeling came from I guess. But I joined the school in Sept 1983, Labour had lost, and lost badly, barely ahead of the Liberals in terms of popular vote, so I don't feel (in hindsight) we were ever in that much danger of seeing the policy coming in.

I have heard that manifesto referred to as the world's longest suicide note.

 

[Bold Seagull]

just listening to the wish list of green deal, what a wonderful communist... i mean community future Corbyn's Labour will bring. i wonder when they will work out it'll remove more jobs from industry, then created from new windfarms? GMB union got it.

It's amazing people still have that 1950s 'commie' hysteria in their heads. These policies are no different to countries in Scandinavia, Germany etc. are doing. Norway, Sweden, Denmark already actioning their Green Deals, something Labour is modelling their policy on. It's not even considered far left, let alone communist. Finland has already taken its private schools into the state education system. Most Labour policies aren't radically new, but neither are they untested. As for re-nationalisation of the railways, 14 of the 20 franchises are now run by foreign state owned entities - so it's nearly nationalised already, just not by our state!

 

[beorhthelm]

It's amazing people still have that 1950s 'commie' hysteria in their heads. These policies are no different to countries in Scandinavia, Germany etc. are doing. Norway, Sweden, Denmark already actioning their Green Deals, something Labour is modelling their policy on. It's not even considered far left, let alone communist. Finland has already taken its private schools into the state education system. Most Labour policies aren't radically new, but neither are they untested. As for re-nationalisation of the railways, 14 of the 20 franchises are now run by foreign state owned entities - so it's nearly nationalised already, just not by our state!

so state planning of the energy sector, community ownership of EV fleet is in no way left wing? not sure i care what they call it abroad, it is what it is.

 

[Bold Seagull]

What on earth are you talking about?

I'm no more of a Tory than Jeremy Corbyn is. I've voted Tory in the past, but I've also voted Labour and Lib Dem. The latter have had my vote for a fair few years now, and I can't see that changing with the two main parties both an utter shambles with terrible leadership.

Hope this helps.

Being a centrist is so quintessentially British.

Not too much of that, not too much of this.

 

[Bold Seagull]

so state planning of the energy sector, community ownership of EV fleet is in no way left?

Why don't you make a point rather than use a question. I don't need to do your work for you.

 

[beorhthelm]

Why don't you make a point rather than use a question. I don't need to do your work for you.

how else to have debate without questions? another, sorry if you cant answer. i understand that you might agree and want to have state control of energy, transport, other areas of the economy. this is a left wing ideology and tools used by socialist government. i dont know why people pretend it is not socialist/communist when they advocated as such by proponents of those philosophies, its as if there is fear of the association.

 

[Bold Seagull]

how else to have debate without questions? another, sorry if you cant answer. i understand that you might agree and want to have state control of energy, transport, other areas of the economy. this is a left wing ideology and tools used by socialist government. i dont know why people pretend it is not socialist/communist when they advocated as such by proponents of those philosophies, its as if there is fear of the association.

The answer was within my post. If you don't know the difference between democratic socialism and communism, I haven't got time to explain it to you, but suggest there is plenty of reading to help.

 

[dazzer6666]

Indeed. Corbyn seems to have decided that we can have a vote on anything now, and whoever wins dictates policy. Meanwhile he sits on the fence. What happened to the firebrand lefty that galvanized and lead Britain's left wing for over 40 years, rolling back the clammy hand of Capital?*

*Oh hang on. He was a pissy back bencher who lead nothing and opoosed everything with his ineffectiver votes against his own pary again and again, that counted for nothing and achieved nothing.

A man of consistent impact (i.e., none whatsoever).

Still....even after a lifetime of failure and no prospect of improvement, he's better than Boris.

Better ? Marginally less worse ? Equally ****ing useless ?? Similarly dangerous ??

I don't know any more - just totally despair at the politicians, and particularly the leadership, in general.................it's desperate. Couldn't vote for any of them as things stand. We're loose.

 

[highflyer]

just listening to the wish list of green deal, what a wonderful communist... i mean community future Corbyn's Labour will bring. i wonder when they will work out it'll remove more jobs from industry, then created from new windfarms? GMB union got it.

GMB are old fashioned union dinosaurs.

The vote (on a green new deal) was a break from the 'old left' past. It shows that, finally, Labour understand the Climate crisis, what it really means and what is required in response. If you understand the science, what 3 or 4 degrees warming will look like, how tipping points work etc, then you understand that what Labour voted for is just the beginning of what we have to do.

(cue: blah bla 'but China', blah blah 'unrealistic' blah blah 'hypocricy' blah blah ' blah blah population)

The debates at Labour conference seem to be way way ahead of the understanding of most political commentators.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

I'm not a Labour voter, but their Green policies are the part that I like the most about them. Luckily the Lib Dems are also on the 'right side' of policy when it comes to the environment.

 

[beorhthelm]

GMB are old fashioned union dinosaurs.

The vote (on a green new deal) was a break from the 'old left' past. It shows that, finally, Labour understand the Climate crisis, what it really means and what is required in response. If you understand the science, what 3 or 4 degrees warming will look like, how tipping points work etc, then you understand that what Labour voted for is just the beginning of what we have to do.

(cue: blah bla 'but China', blah blah 'unrealistic' blah blah 'hypocricy' blah blah ' blah blah population)

The debates at Labour conference seem to be way way ahead of the understanding of most political commentators.

i understand the science, including the predictions that we dont get to 3 or 4 deg warming unless we have unfettered increase of emissions. there are scenarios where 1-2deg have minor, manageable impact. i also understand the economics and impact to standards of living being asked to achieve the zero emissions. there is a choice, large reduction in emissions and maintain most of our modern conveniences, or massive reduction of emissions with massive loss of living standards and de-industrialisation. no good dismissing China, its utterly stupid of us to aim for reducing our 1% of global emissions to 0 if one emitting ~30% is not reducing, especially if we are transferring lots of our emissions there anyway. you cannot get to 0 net emissions on just EVs and some carbon offsetting, we'll have to lose petro-chemical industry, air travel, personal transportation, manufacturing, central heating, while agriculture will barely survive as we know it.

 

[Bold Seagull]

i understand the science, including the predictions that we dont get to 3 or 4 deg warming unless we have unfettered increase of emissions. there are scenarios where 1-2deg have minor, manageable impact. i also understand the economics and impact to standards of living being asked to achieve the zero emissions. there is a choice, large reduction in emissions and maintain most of our modern conveniences, or massive reduction of emissions with massive loss of living standards and de-industrialisation. no good dismissing China, its utterly stupid of us to aim for reducing our 1% of global emissions to 0 if one emitting ~30% is not reducing, especially if we are transferring lots of our emissions there anyway. you cannot get to 0 net emissions on just EVs and some carbon offsetting, we'll have to lose petro-chemical industry, air travel, personal transportation, manufacturing, central heating, while agriculture will barely survive as we know it.

China is set to meet its Paris Accord targets for 2020, on target for 2030, and will be submitting a revised better national target contribution next year. They're also set to have the most stringent emissions targets for passenger vehicles by next year and are heavily subsidising new energy vehicles.

Far from being enough at this point, but if they continue to improve on their targets, their output may well be reducing over the coming years.

We can't control why they do of course, so basically need to do all that we can, and we certainly don't want to be behind our European neighbours.

 

[beorhthelm]

China is set to meet its Paris Accord targets for 2020, on target for 2030, and will be submitting a revised better national target contribution next year. They're also set to have the most stringent emissions targets for passenger vehicles by next year and are heavily subsidising new energy vehicles.

Far from being enough at this point, but if they continue to improve on their targets, their output may well be reducing over the coming years.

We can't control why they do of course, so basically need to do all that we can, and we certainly don't want to be behind our European neighbours.

to be fair the Chinese are doing a lot with a big driver also on pollution for them, i dont believe their carbon emission is reducing yet, slowing increase. they'll happily flood a valley, cover miles of land with solar or build some nuclear plants to get towards their targets, options which we wont do.

 

[Bold Seagull]

to be fair the Chinese are doing a lot with a big driver also on pollution for them, i dont believe their carbon emission is reducing yet, slowing increase. they'll happily flood a valley, cover miles of land with solar or build some nuclear plants to get towards their targets, options which we wont do.

Yes agree, by no means a beacon of green ideals, and emissions continue to rise but they are on the precipice of halting that rise and then starting to reduce.

The result really is that China wants to trade with everyone, so if everyone is reducing then it is under pressure to do so. It is no good us turning to the world and saying we're not going to go anything till you do, it is about leading and being a leader. We're lagging behind similar nations to us at present. That is not good enough.