[Cricket] Aussie Cheats!

[ManOfSussex]

Maybe Yorkshire should offer Davey Warner a contract. I'm sure he'd get a warm reception at Headingley.

Completely agree with the above points that there is no way this is the full story, Lehman will probably go after this series one way or another and this summer's matches are going to be EPIC from a piss taking point of view.

The fact that it's now come out that it was sandpaper is even funnier as it means they lied about the lie about cheating as well. Amazing levels of arrogance and self entitlement even for Australian cricketers.

I just saw SSN's 1300 report on it all - James Sutherland stated that Lehmann on the walkie-talkie was to enquire 'WTF is going on out there?!' when the footage emerged on Saturday and he did not know what was going on or have prior knowledge of it - Sutherland was very committal about that point.

Nasser Hussain was interviewed and made the point that knowing Darren Lehmann as he does, if he was involved and is lying, he wouldn't be able to look people in the eye about it, particularly a young player like Bancroft and let him take the flak for it and you have to take his word for it.

It doesn't quite add up still and as Hussain said the coach was always involved in all decisions in his playing days and also made the point about the bowlers not knowing what's happening to the ball doesn't sound too plausible either.

 

[LlcoolJ]

I just saw SSN's 1300 report on it all - James Sutherland stated that Lehmann on the walkie-talkie was to enquire 'WTF is going on out there?!' when the footage emerged on Saturday and he did not know what was going on or have prior knowledge of it - Sutherland was very committal about that point.

Nasser Hussain was interviewed and made the point that knowing Darren Lehmann as he does, if he was involved and is lying, he wouldn't be able to look people in the eye about it, particularly a young player like Bancroft and let him take the flak for it and you have to take his word for it.

It doesn't quite add up still and as Hussain said the coach was always involved in all decisions in his playing days and also made the point about the bowlers not knowing what's happening to the ball doesn't sound too plausible either.

But the point, as others have made, is that even if we believe that Lehmann was completely unaware of any ball tampering, he's still supposed to be the bloke in charge. He's presided over (and defended) the gradual decline in standards of behaviour in his team which has culminated in this utter mess.

Whichever way you look at it, the bloke is culpable and I can't see any way that he can carry on. The stain will not be removed until CA are seen to have cleared the decks and created a different attitude throughout the team.

If I were an Aussie then I'd want him gone now and to get Langer in to kick them into shape.

 

[ManOfSussex]

But the point, as others have made, is that even if we believe that Lehmann was completely unaware of any ball tampering, he's still supposed to be the bloke in charge. He's presided over (and defended) the gradual decline in standards of behaviour in his team which has culminated in this utter mess.

Whichever way you look at it, the bloke is culpable and I can't see any way that he can carry on. The stain will not be removed until CA are seen to have cleared the decks and created a different attitude throughout the team.

If I were an Aussie then I'd want him gone now and to get Langer in to kick them into shape.

I agree with you. There's an independent conduct and culture investigation to take place into the team, so due process is still ongoing on him in that regard and Sutherland has said additional allegations will be taken further. Once Lehamann gets home after this test and this shambles of a series, there's got to be a fair chance of him resigning anyway before their limited overs tour here in 2 months.

 

[Parson Henry]

But the point, as others have made, is that even if we believe that Lehmann was completely unaware of any ball tampering, he's still supposed to be the bloke in charge. He's presided over (and defended) the gradual decline in standards of behaviour in his team which has culminated in this utter mess.

Whichever way you look at it, the bloke is culpable and I can't see any way that he can carry on. The stain will not be removed until CA are seen to have cleared the decks and created a different attitude throughout the team.

If I were an Aussie then I'd want him gone now and to get Langer in to kick them into shape.

The worry is this brings Gillespie into the spotlight for the job.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

The worry is this brings Gillespie into the spotlight for the job.

Looks like Langer is the clear favourite

 

[LlcoolJ]

The worry is this brings Gillespie into the spotlight for the job.

I think Langer has all but got the job.

Not such a worry for me anyway as I'm an honorary Yorkshireman when it comes to cricket. Would prefer to see Gillespie stay at Sussex though, he'll do a great job.

 

[Pavilionaire]

[TWEET]978900956527153154[/TWEET]

BTW, anyone else think it's convenient the 12 month bans mean both are available for the World Cup and Ashes?

I would rather they played in the Ashes than didn't play. We beat the Aussies here before with Warner and Smith in the side, we can do it again.

Moreover, this is the marketing opportunity from heaven for a sandpaper company to run off several thousand reversible sheets - sandpaper on the back, '4' on the front.

 

[LlcoolJ]

I would rather they played in the Ashes than didn't play. We beat the Aussies here before with Warner and Smith in the side, we can do it again.

Moreover, this is the marketing opportunity from heaven for a sandpaper company to run off several thousand reversible sheets - sandpaper on the back, '4' on the front.

Can't see Warner ever playing test cricket again. Unfortunately as I would LOVE to see the grief he'd get at the next Ashes series. I'm sure Smith will be back though.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Can't see Warner ever playing test cricket again. Unfortunately as I would LOVE to see the grief he'd get at the next Ashes series. I'm sure Smith will be back though.

I'll miss his gritty determination, but not his abrasive nature.

 

[LlcoolJ]

I'll miss his gritty determination, but not his abrasive nature.

I'll miss not being able to give him absolute pelters. Anything else not so much.

 

[Audax]

This blatantly and such a pre-meditated fashion? I doubt they ever have. It is astonishing. SANDPAPER ffs!

Yep. 2005 Ashes. It's the biggest "sweets to modify saliva in order to ball tamper" episode in history. Trescothick has admitted to it, even to having experimented prior to the series to figure out which mints were the best to get results. Vaughan on Twitter has today admitted that it took place, but defended it on the grounds that "everyone was doing it". Which, IMO, doesn't quite tally with Trescothick's telling of the tale.

Will grant that sandpaper is taking things to a new level, although it's not too different to Faf du Plessis choosing to wear trousers with zippered pockets so he could scrub the rough side of the ball with the zipper 5-6 years back.

But the point, as others have made, is that even if we believe that Lehmann was completely unaware of any ball tampering, he's still supposed to be the bloke in charge. He's presided over (and defended) the gradual decline in standards of behaviour in his team which has culminated in this utter mess.

Whichever way you look at it, the bloke is culpable and I can't see any way that he can carry on. The stain will not be removed until CA are seen to have cleared the decks and created a different attitude throughout the team.

If I were an Aussie then I'd want him gone now and to get Langer in to kick them into shape.

I agree that Lehmann's days are probably numbered. But it won't be the ball tampering itself that will trigger his removal. I'm willing to take the evidence supplied at face value on this. Jim Maxwell has apparently heard some more detail of the conversation that took place when Smith should have put a stop to it: essentially Warner was coaching Bancroft on what to do during the lunch break, Smith walked past and clocked what was going on, asked them "What are you doing? I don't want to know what you're doing." and continued walking.

What will be the end of Lehmann's career as Aussie coach is that he's been the coach in charge of the poisoning of the culture inside the team to such a point that a) Warner felt he could induce Bancroft to do such a stupid thing, b) Smith didn't put a stop to it immediately.

When looking back over the series so far, the one commonality I can pick out in everything is Warner. I have a feeling that the South African's targeted him, and I have no doubt that de Kock is guilty of what Warner claims he said and that it was a deliberate ploy to unbalance Warner. But there's no defending Warner in any of this: he's going to become Australia's Kevin Pietersen. He'll never play for the country again even once his ban is expired. Smith will, and I hope Bancroft will as well (he's the one guy I feel a little sorrowful for in all this. He did the wrong thing, he absolutely should have refused to do it, but he's the most junior player and approached by the vice captain and tasked with "helping the team").

I do find myself agreeing with Vaughan on one thing (despite finding most of what he's said around this entirely hypocritical given the 2005 Ashes being tainted): the penalties are right out on the harsh end of the scale. I hope that the ICC takes note and revises their own rules to ensure that any future ball tampering is treated equally as seriously as the CA have taken it this time around. The CA is right when they say that this isn't about the ball tampering itself as such. It's about the damage it does to the reputation of the sport as a whole. There's a long history now of the ICC failing to appropriately deal with ball tampering (3 guilty verdicts against South Africans in the last 6 years, and both players concerned are playing in this series). As an Aussie myself, I'm glad to see the CA taking a very hard stance on the issue. Will be interesting to see what other boards / the ICC do in future.

 

[Eeyore]

Can we bring forward the Ashes series to this summer now ?

 

[Lady Whistledown]

I'll miss his gritty determination, but not his abrasive nature.

Where's he going to play in the meantime though? Oh of coarse- grade cricket.

 

[Lower West Stander]

But the point, as others have made, is that even if we believe that Lehmann was completely unaware of any ball tampering, he's still supposed to be the bloke in charge. He's presided over (and defended) the gradual decline in standards of behaviour in his team which has culminated in this utter mess.

Whichever way you look at it, the bloke is culpable and I can't see any way that he can carry on. The stain will not be removed until CA are seen to have cleared the decks and created a different attitude throughout the team.

If I were an Aussie then I'd want him gone now and to get Langer in to kick them into shape.

Absolutely this.

It is irrelevant whether Lehmann actually knew. He is in charge of the team and therefore responsible. The chairman of the Parole Board has just resigned after the Warboys case even though he was not personally involved in the decision to give Warboys parole.

What’s the difference?


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[ManOfSussex]

[tweet]978970105534189575[/tweet]

 

[Lady Whistledown]

Ouch

[tweet] 978844131823730688[/tweet]

 

[neilbard]

New Aussie Mascot

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

Can you just imagine the stick that Smith and Warner would get if they make it onto the next Ashes trip? It would almost be worth the price of the ticket to go see. (Any truth in the rumour that Lords is going to rename the 'Warner Stand'?)

 

[Pavilionaire]

Absolutely this.

It is irrelevant whether Lehmann actually knew. He is in charge of the team and therefore responsible. The chairman of the Parole Board has just resigned after the Warboys case even though he was not personally involved in the decision to give Warboys parole.

What’s the difference?

I'm not sure about that. If Lehmann genuinely didn't know about the ball tampering then what is he guilty of? By forcing him to leave his position he is being punished for something he didn't do, and his CV will be tarnished hereafter.

I point the finger at Steve Smith - he was on the field, he knew what was going on, he drove it.

 

[Tooting Gull]

I'm not sure about that. If Lehmann genuinely didn't know about the ball tampering then what is he guilty of? By forcing him to leave his position he is being punished for something he didn't do, and his CV will be tarnished hereafter.

I point the finger at Steve Smith - he was on the field, he knew what was going on, he drove it.

Agree with this, it certainly isn't irrelevant whether Lehmann knew or not. If he knew that would have been much worse, up there with Smith.

If he didn't know it still isn't great for his coaching reputation, because it happened on his watch and he clearly didn't have control over the players or know what was going on in the dressing room - stuff was being done behind his back. If I was a national cricket body looking for a new coach, that would worry me.