[Football] Jacob Rees-Mogg.

[dingodan]

To start with, his views on same sex marrage and abortion. He goes on his belief. His BELIEF!? Think about that. We have someone, who is elected to represent us, who is doing things he BELIEVES are correct, not are correct or he has researched and worked out to be correct, but just on a belief.
**** that. We need people running the country who are capable of working out and doing the right thing, not what they believe are right.

Morality is a judgement call, it's not objective, so the term "correct" is a problematic. That's why questions of morality have their place in philosophy (and religion) rather than science.

What you are saying doesn't really make sense, everyone who "does the right thing" is doing what they believe to be the right thing. If we could know what the right thing to do is, in all cases, life would be a hell of a lot easier. It isn't that simple.

In fact you should be far more cautious about the person who says they "know" what is right, they tend to be far more dangerous.

 

[dingodan]

No. Belief and knowledge are different. If you only believe something or if you can't prove it is the right thing you should not do it. You need to gain more knowledge. He just acts on a feeling and belief.

Yes but you are talking about his morals and values, not his knowledge.

If you were to explain to me your position on gay marriage and abortion (please don't) you would be expressing your beliefs. They are beliefs.

Very little is truly known except objective matters of fact, of which there are few, and even those are subject to change with increased understanding.

 

[The Clamp]

He gives after dinner speeches for a group that calls for all black people to be returned to their "native homelands". When questioned about this he tried to distance himself from the group. Yeah, a real straight talker.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Whatever happened to rational debate ? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-42926535

always rely on the far left to try and gag people, what a bunch of *****
regards
DR

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

He gives after dinner speeches for a group that calls for all black people to be returned to their "native homelands". When questioned about this he tried to distance himself from the group. Yeah, a real straight talker.

name that group ?
regards
DR

 

[sjamesb3466]

There are a couple of flaws with your reasoning. His religious view in this context is that the commandment "Thou shall not kill" is important and non negotiable. This is entirely in keeping with the views of the majority of the society, our society has law as a crucial foundation, and it's against the law to kill. Where society and JRM differ is in whether on not abortion is killing, but that is a scientific and factual distinction, it's not a moral one. On the moral question (is it wrong to kill?) everyone agrees (even you I would have thought?).

I agree strongly with the principle that people should be able to live their lives as they chose, and make decisions for themselves. In almost all cases I am opposed to telling others how to live or being told how to live myself.

However the protection of life is a bit different though, if you accept the premise that abortion is the taking of a life.

We don't live in a society which says if you don't agree with killing then don't kill, but don't stop others from doing it.

Where was my flaw in my reasoning? I am being consistent in saying I believe that there are certain situations where I believe killing can be justified. Where JRM differs is that one the one hand he is following the supposedly non-negotiable 'Thou shalt not kill' commandment to the letter (argument aside regarding whether an embryo/fetus can be considered a human being) yet at the same time he is willing to sent troops into war and support nuclear weapons, thereby accepting that under some circumstances killing another human being (whether it is in self preservation or otherwise) can be acceptable. It's like in the US where most of the pro-life support also agree with the death penalty which I find bizarre.

I wasn't suggesting that we live in a society where we say not to stop others from killing. We live in a society that collectively says that an embyro or fetus that is not yet viable to survive outside the womb can be terminated and legally speaking it is not murder. It does not sit well with anyone and I don't believe many women that go through an abortion ever forget what might have been.

Also I wasn't accusing you of telling others how to live, just making a distinction in general about the pro-life movement who try to prevent people's personal choice.

 

[vegster]

As much as I think he's fundamentally wrong, a borderline comedic prick and a privileged buffoon....
Don't do that.
Idiots.

I think Mr Rees-Mogg is well used to a bit of shouting, heckling and verbal abuse, after all the Tory boys love to dish that out at PMQ 's.

 

[The Clamp]

name that group ?
regards
DR

TBG. Was big news at the time.

 

[sjamesb3466]

And if you have listened to his interviews he accepts that the law is not going to change and therefore, he is not trying to impose his views on others. He is a Catholic and believes in the teachings of the Catholic Church. I find that strange as there is no god; it’s been made up to control people IMO.

He is not extremist; lots of Catholics (and others) will have this view. He’s not going out of his way to impose his views on others;’ he’s not rissuing a rallying call for action is he. He has expressed his own opinion on a sensitive topic, very quell aware that it would be contentious, but he has been honest.

Yet there are still those who are so blinkered who want to castigate him as ‘extremist’ for his own personal views.

Extremism to me is taking action to enforce your views on others.

From the Cambridge English dictionary, "Extremism; the fact of someone having beliefs that most people think are unreasonable and unacceptable". Nothing to do with taking action, simply holding such beliefs. Not allowing a raped woman the chance to terminate an embryo that came into existance due to such horrific circumstances would be pretty unreasonable to most in society. He accepts that his views are not mainstream, would win little support and that it would damage his political career to push for the law to change.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

I think Mr Rees-Mogg is well used to a bit of shouting, heckling and verbal abuse, after all the Tory boys love to dish that out at PMQ 's.

Yeah, far left scum turning up mob-handed looking for trouble is just like parliamentary knockabout.

 

[Ernest]

Yeah, far left scum turning up mob-handed looking for trouble is just like parliamentary knockabout.

Snowflake

 

[vegster]

Yeah, far left scum turning up mob-handed looking for trouble is just like parliamentary knockabout.

Sticks and stones JC, man up.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Sticks and stones JC, man up.

Look at you, Mr Keyboard warrior/Apologist for political intimidation. I'm sure if far-right groups turned up mob-handed, dressed in black disrupting Labour MP's speeches you would think it acceptable.

 

[vegster]

Look at you, Mr Keyboard warrior/Apologist for political intimidation. I'm sure if far-right groups turned up mob-handed, dressed in black disrupting Labour MP's speeches you would think it acceptable.

Oh, do dry up and blow away. Someone with objectionable views gets confronted by objectors, end of story. It's not like when a far right supporter shot dead a Labour MP now is it ?

 

[Hastings gull]

Look at you, Mr Keyboard warrior/Apologist for political intimidation. I'm sure if far-right groups turned up mob-handed, dressed in black disrupting Labour MP's speeches you would think it acceptable.

Yes, their double standards are quite breath-taking, but sadly not surprising.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Can't stand them either as all are brainwashed young and incredibly anti British....Just goes to show that when you're young you believe everything they tell you at universities and act in an idiotic way.
At least the righties have life experience and can make their own minds up about politics and what's happening !!!

So can us moderate patriotic old lefties, as it happens.

 

[turienzo's lovechild]

Look at you, Mr Keyboard warrior/Apologist for political intimidation. I'm sure if far-right groups turned up mob-handed, dressed in black disrupting Labour MP's speeches you would think it acceptable.

No far right groups tend to go down the “murder” route when it comes to Labour MP’s


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[pastafarian]

He gives after dinner speeches for a group that calls for all black people to be returned to their "native homelands". When questioned about this he tried to distance himself from the group. Yeah, a real straight talker.

Was big news at the time.

The reports from the time are slightly different from yours.

He was invited to speak at one event by Traditional Britain Group, doesnt give multiple speeches at multiple events like you are saying. Searchlight warned him the group had some links to the far right, Mogg sought clarification from Conservative party headquarters on the group,who gave him the green light. He further spoke to the leader of the group in question who said searchlight were smearing them.

When it came to be known about them he didn’t weasel or distance himself from the whole thing, like other politicians, he admitted his mistake.

Mr Rees-Mogg said he was “shocked” to learn of the group’s views and insisted he had never been a supporter or member.
“It’s undoubtedly embarrassing. I feel very silly. This was clearly a mistake,” he said. “I try to accept invitations from most people who ask me to speak. I could limit myself to just speaking to Conservative Associations, which would be safe but politics, is about speaking to a variety of views. But I wouldn’t want to be caught out in this way again.”

The leader of Traditional Britain Group even said he didn’t know how they had even been approved by central office and that he had spoken to Mogg after dinner at the event about the groups beliefs on immigration and Mogg had disagreed with him saying he(Mogg) believed in the opposite and was in favour of racial integration

As you said, it was big news at the time, as was his apology to his mistake in attending, which led to the issue blowing over.
Im sure you could have looked into this “big news” yourself and its aftermath but you seem to have set yourself into one blinkered version, through your usual gullibility, that suits your agenda………as always.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Oh, do dry up and blow away. Someone with objectionable views gets confronted by objectors, end of story. It's not like when a far right supporter shot dead a Labour MP now is it ?

Corbynista supports political intimidation 'shock'.

 

[pastafarian]

Oh, do dry up and blow away. Someone with objectionable views gets confronted by objectors, end of story. It's not like when a far right supporter shot dead a Labour MP now is it ?

Ah playing the Jo Cox card to excuse the mob "no platforming" mentality of some unreasonable urchins.
Classy as **** that.