Southern Rail STRIKE details

[ManOfSussex]

With the exception of course of the one that would be most important on evening match days the 18.33 from Lewes which is conveniently permanently cancelled.

So I see. I generally get the one after that the 1726 from Hastings Ore to Brighton service on a match night.

 

[Deadly Danson]

Didn't Govia run the previous franchise as well?

This this this this!! I can't believe no one at the committee picked up on it. Yes they took over Thameslink but they are 100% responsible for any Southern shortages.

 

[Gazwag]

I wonder what the commuters who have been completely shafted recently would choose...

1) Having a guard close the doors on each train, but numerous delays, cancellations, short trains and/or reduced service.
2) Taking a bit more personal responsibility when getting on and off trains, but a fuller and more reliable service.

Was never an issue in the good old days when a passenger could just pull down the window and open the door themselves, bring back the old trains I say, always a laugh jumping on a train as its pulling out of the station.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

The SASTA executives also repeatedly spoke about the franchise they inherited coming with an unexpected staff shortage. The panel were quite right in suggesting a degree of poor performance on behalf of SASTA around this, but surely the wider industry has an obligation to ensure that franchise handovers are as smooth as possible, limiting the impact on passengers.

Would be very surprised indeed if SASTA bosses didn't have huge personal bonuses riding on beating the unions and delivering DOO trains to the next incoming franchise, with the current impact on customers being neither here nor there.

 

[Steve in Japan]

This this this this!! I can't believe no one at the committee picked up on it. Yes they took over Thameslink but they are 100% responsible for any Southern shortages.

Thats what I thought - it's like saying "I didn't handover to myself very well, and thats why we don't have enough staff". Unfortunately not many people seem to be aware of this.

 

[Hotchilidog]

Maybe. One of the things I took from this morning's session was that it is appears to be commonplace across the rail industry for there to be a reliance on people working non-core hours in order to fulfil all timetabled services, and that SASTA's setup typifies that.

I clearly do not have any personal industry experience to know whether that is correct or not, but it didn't seem to be challenged at all.

The SASTA executives also repeatedly spoke about the franchise they inherited coming with an unexpected staff shortage. The panel were quite right in suggesting a degree of poor performance on behalf of SASTA around this, but surely the wider industry has an obligation to ensure that franchise handovers are as smooth as possible, limiting the impact on passengers.

All that has happened is that GOVIA and Southern are now under the same umbrella, having been gradually merged over the past couple of years, they "inherited" the situation from themselves. There was nothing surprising about staffing levels at all as they were responsible for those levels in the first place! I completely agree that GTR have not been hammered enough on this and I too am baffled as to how they have been able to get away with it.

 

[Arthur]

I wonder what the commuters who have been completely shafted recently would choose...

1) Having a guard close the doors on each train, but numerous delays, cancellations, short trains and/or reduced service.
2) Taking a bit more personal responsibility when getting on and off trains, but a fuller and more reliable service.

See my previous post on this thread. http://www.northstandchat.com/showt...ern-Rail-STRIKE-details&p=7478592#post7478592 ask all the people who were waiting for that train and I'd be very surprised if even one of them would go for option 1.

Last night on the 18:06 LBG to UCK which is an 8 car service we pulled into Crowborough which has a platform that can only take 6 coaches. So every night there is a steady queue of people wandering down the train and getting off in the 6th coach. Normally the guard waits at that 6th door until everyone is off and then moves to the other half of the train (Buxted is only 4 coaches in platform length at the moment). They also normally announce that passengers for Buxted have to be in the front half of the train else they won't be able to get off. Last night that didn't happen but the guard opened the doors at Crowborough and disappeared to the front of the train and shut the doors whilst people were still getting off the train. Luckily I had got off but a couple of months back the exact same thing happened to me, I ended up having to take a ride to Uckfield along with about 40 others only to come back up the line.

So is it safer to have a guard operating the doors or someone who can view the on board CCTV??

 

[Ernest]

Southern as a Go Ahead company and the same managers running the service such as Charles Horton have been running Southern since 2002, they have had 14 years to ensure that the staffing levels were adequate to run the booked timetable.

Rather than have a full number of train crew at each level it was cheaper to have vacancies and less staff than needed and cover the short fall by train crew working rest days and overtime. Up and until Southern booted this into touch when they engineered this dispute with their mates at DfT this was always ok, this method of working will never happen all the time GTR run the franchise now and which is why Peter Wilkinson said be prepared for 3/4 years of a rotten service whilst the war is fought. The new timetable is the next battle in the war and will only get worse as they find they can't even cover these trains adequately.

As for match day trains I can see especially night games because of the more concentrated traffic unlike a Saturday which is more staggered before and after that the SASTA white flag is run up and no trains stop between Brighton and Lewes due to safety concerns.

 

[Hotchilidog]

I wonder what the commuters who have been completely shafted recently would choose...

1) Having a guard close the doors on each train, but numerous delays, cancellations, short trains and/or reduced service.
2) Taking a bit more personal responsibility when getting on and off trains, but a fuller and more reliable service.

Option 1, because people are dicks and the public are the last people I would entrust with safety on the railway. Really it is option 1a. travelling on a train that is run by a company that actually employs enough staff run the advertised service.

You only have to change trains at Gatwick or Redhill in peak hours to see how people can act in an unsafe or disruptive manner. people not letting people off trains before boarding, trying to hold doors open or platform design causing overcrowding. In this instance additional staff are essential. There will be stations where it is possible for the driver to safely take the train, but there others where it is not. Even the ToC companies own report (desipte ignoring their own warning) acknowledged that there is an increase risk of accidents with DOO trains. You never hear about things going right when passengers board and disembark safely, you only hear when it goes wrong as it did recently at Hayes and Harlington. You cannot safety for granted.

 

[Easy 10]

The first test is on 31 July for the game v Lazio.

Then 9 Aug for the home game with Colchester. Admittedly, Colchester may not bring many fans, but those who do come will still be delayed.

The real clusterf*ck will be the game on Friday 12 Aug v Forest.

Indeed.

I'm fortunate enough not to have to throw myself upon the mercy of SASTA to get to and from work every day, but the prospect of relying on them to get me to and from the Amex every other week already has me breaking out in a cold sweat.

The west coastline service was already sardine central just getting to Brighton on a normal matchday (on their little 4 carriage jobbies). Any cancellations on that side of things and it'll become unusable. And that's before you even consider the pressure on the queuing system at Brighton. We can't ALL set off 2-3 hours before kickoff. And I don't even want to think about post-match in the evenings.

I have no idea whether the club have made any enquiries yet as to the level of matchday service we can expect next month, but they certainly need to in good time, to give people fair warning and get some announcements out at LEAST a couple of weeks in advance, because people will be buying tickets soon and relying on this "service".

 

[Bozza]

Option 1, because people are dicks and the public are the last people I would entrust with safety on the railway. Really it is option 1a. travelling on a train that is run by a company that actually employs enough staff run the advertised service.

You only have to change trains at Gatwick or Redhill in peak hours to see how people can act in an unsafe or disruptive manner. people not letting people off trains before boarding, trying to hold doors open or platform design causing overcrowding. In this instance additional staff are essential. There will be stations where it is possible for the driver to safely take the train, but there others where it is not. Even the ToC companies own report (desipte ignoring their own warning) acknowledged that there is an increase risk of accidents with DOO trains. You never hear about things going right when passengers board and disembark safely, you only hear when it goes wrong as it did recently at Hayes and Harlington. You cannot safety for granted.

So the current solitary guard is able to effectively monitor and control the flow of people off and on a 12 carriage train with 20+ doors open on a busy platform? Those guys are veritable supermen.

As I said earlier, whilst not defending SASTA's resourcing, it does seem to be accepted that all operators are reliant upon a pool of people working beyond their core hours in order to fulfil their timetabled commitments. Perhaps, again at industry level, moves are made to reduce or remove that reliance. SASTA have been found out because of the unusual pattern of staff illness that has mysteriously swept through their workforce.

 

[Hotchilidog]

So the current solitary guard is able to effectively monitor and control the flow of people off and on a 12 carriage train with 20+ doors open on a busy platform? Those guys are veritable supermen.

As I said earlier, whilst not defending SASTA's resourcing, it does seem to be accepted that all operators are reliant upon a pool of people working beyond their core hours in order to fulfil their timetabled commitments. Perhaps, again at industry level, moves are made to reduce or remove that reliance. SASTA have been found out because of the unusual pattern of staff illness that has mysteriously swept through their workforce.

In those instances there will be station staff to assist and take repsonsibility. My point was more about relying on the unreliable behaviour of passengers to maintain safety. With the best will in the world there is no accounting for people.

As for your other point regarding the industry staffing levels I am in full agreement.

 

[Ernest]

Indeed.

I'm fortunate enough not to have to throw myself upon the mercy of SASTA to get to and from work every day, but the prospect of relying on them to get me to and from the Amex every other week already has me breaking out in a cold sweat.

The west coastline service was already sardine central just getting to Brighton on a normal matchday (on their little 4 carriage jobbies). Any cancellations on that side of things and it'll become unusable. And that's before you even consider the pressure on the queuing system at Brighton. We can't ALL set off 2-3 hours before kickoff. And I don't even want to think about post-match in the evenings.

I have no idea whether the club have made any enquiries yet as to the level of matchday service we can expect next month, but they certainly need to in good time, to give people fair warning and get some announcements out at LEAST a couple of weeks in advance, because people will be buying tickets soon and relying on this "service".

I would say travelling to mid week games from Worthing is going to be impossible on the new timetable. Trains from Worthing to Brighton and not all of these call all stations arriving Brighton at 1648, 1712, 1742, 1748, 1809 and then nothing until 1851.

Not one train arriving in Brighton from Worthing between 1809 & 1851.

 

[CHAPPERS]

A colleague at work can now not commute properly from SEAFORD without taking a bus, which doubles his journey time, in order to get his daughter on time.

Absurd and disgraceful.

 

[Easy 10]

I would say travelling to mid week games from Worthing is going to be impossible on the new timetable. Trains from Worthing to Brighton and not all of these call all stations arriving Brighton at 1648, 1712, 1742, 1748, 1809 and then nothing until 1851.

Not one train arriving in Brighton from Worthing between 1809 & 1851.

Triffic.

So unless you can get a train that arrives at Brighton at 6.09 (and that's if you CAN even actually get on), fans using the west coastline service will get to Brighton station at BEST 54 minutes before kickoff - and join whatever clusterf**k has by then developed at Brighton.

This is going to kick off big time.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Triffic.

So unless you can get a train that arrives at Brighton at 6.09 (and that's if you CAN even actually get on), fans using the west coastline service will get to Brighton station at BEST 54 minutes before kickoff - and join whatever clusterf**k has by then developed at Brighton.

This is going to kick off big time.

So, to sum up:

1. SKY want the Albion to play most of their home matches midweek
2. SASTA don't want to lay on any trains to service home matches midweek

Simply head-mental.

 

[Hotchilidog]

A colleague at work can now not commute properly from SEAFORD without taking a bus, which doubles his journey time, in order to get his daughter on time.

Absurd and disgraceful.

That is nothing other than a complete dereliction of duty by SASTA. It is a scandal.

 

[Tony Meolas Loan Spell]

That is nothing other than a complete dereliction of duty by SASTA. It is a scandal.

They are actually ruining peoples lives. Thats not hyperbole. Thats FACT. More and more stories about people not being able to say goodnight to their kids, threat of losing their job because they just cant guarantee to get into work on time etc.

Absolute ***** of the ****ing highest order. Whats worse is that they can get away with it as well and still make shit loads of cash FOR THEIR SHAREHOLDERS.

 

[The Albion Roar]

I would say travelling to mid week games from Worthing is going to be impossible on the new timetable. Trains from Worthing to Brighton and not all of these call all stations arriving Brighton at 1648, 1712, 1742, 1748, 1809 and then nothing until 1851.

Not one train arriving in Brighton from Worthing between 1809 & 1851.

And then nothing afterwards if you want to be in time for kick off.

 

[Ernest]

And then nothing afterwards if you want to be in time for kick off.

Yes, I think the club forgets that most peoples journey is not just Brighton - Falmer - Brighton on the trains on match days, Seaford is a bus service from Lewes and trains heading east from Worthing etc will already be rammed with commuters, school kids and students etc before Albion fans get on.

The club have a month now to arrange some sort of contingency plan