Britain's shame... how did we forget how to make things ?

[severnside gull]

Despite what practically every contributor to this thread seems to think, the value of British manufacturing has risen consistently since the 2nd World War.

Traditional heavy industries were in terminal decline way before Thatcher, and anyone who cares to look at the experience of any other industrialised western country will find exactly the same trends as we saw in Britain.

Interesting graph. I so love stats and what they can be used to "prove".
From my perspective this might be seen to show the impact of key periods in the creation of modern "Tory Values" (ie. The periods of relative decline) and when adjusted for inflation even more so. Indeed if you build in inflation over the period it's even less inspiring. Of course as you so rightly suggest that is true for many nations who failed to adjust and failed to invest but then isn't inward investment largely a factor of government policy and direction? Factor in the number of people employed in manufacture vs service industries over the period for a more balanced picture.
It is interesting to look at other nation's efforts (the Germans and the French for example) and see their increasing dominance of our internal markets achieved through investment and ownership, initially at home, over the same period. One of the keys to their relative success (the German car industry for example and France's dogged preservation of its agricultural base and relative dominance in the utilities field) does seem to have been a considered determination to retain some key skill areas as being too valuable to the national psyche and sense of wellbeing to simply abandon. All could have been cast aside as being unsalvageable. There is a natural atrophy in all societies but the choices in how individual nations respond are down to political decisions and the differences can be fairly stark.
We could have retained a greater emphasis on key elements of manufacturing. We chose not to.
The tools we used were starvation of funds, vilification of any who dared to oppose the chosen direction of travel, and manipulation of media.
We are now where we are and I'm not saying that if others had opted for a different route and been successful it would have been any better or any worse. It would simply have been different.





It's down to choices.

 

[beorhthelm]

...One of the keys to their relative success (the German car industry for example and France's dogged preservation of its agricultural base and relative dominance in the utilities field) does seem to have been a considered determination to retain some key skill areas as being too valuable to the national psyche and sense of wellbeing to simply abandon.

why cant we recognise those key skill areas that we have and which continue? high tech industry, media, dare i say it banking, finance and professional services have managed to keep us a top nation. if not these then what is behind our relative success, because no one can say we havent had any.

 

[gordonchas]

Interesting graph. I so love stats and what they can be used to "prove".
From my perspective this might be seen to show the impact of key periods in the creation of modern "Tory Values" (ie. The periods of relative decline) and when adjusted for inflation even more so. Indeed if you build in inflation over the period it's even less inspiring. Of course as you so rightly suggest that is true for many nations who failed to adjust and failed to invest but then isn't inward investment largely a factor of government policy and direction? Factor in the number of people employed in manufacture vs service industries over the period for a more balanced picture.

The graph is already inflation-adjusted.

The dips in it occur where there are recessions, such as in the 70s and 2008-2010 (when Britain had a Labour government). The value of manufacturing output was some 20% higher by 1990 than it was in 1979, which again doesn't fit your meme.

What it means is that the UK manufacturing chain has moved from low value to high value products. The cheap stuff is all made elsewhere. But the value of manufacturing hasn't shrunk, it's just that other areas of the economy have grown much more quickly.

 

[severnside gull]

why cant we recognise those key skill areas that we have and which continue? high tech industry, media, dare i say it banking, finance and professional services have managed to keep us a top nation. if not these then what is behind our relative success, because no one can say we havent had any.

Agree entirely
The debate though is that we have largely abandoned manufacturing for service based industries.
Could we have championed both? Who knows?

 

[Doc Lynam]

Ever since Thatcher and the conservatives focused our economy on the service industry. We again had an opportunity to kick start our industrial base developing and becoming world leaders in green technology and its manufacturing 5 years ago, Cameron decided not to invest. Generations of knowledge and skilled labour gone all so we can serve and sell other people's stuff.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

true, and apparently we make more cars in Nissan's Sunderland plant alone than whole of Italy, and export more than anyone apart from the Germans. not bad for a dead industry.

Not true. The UK assembles a lot of cars but it's stretching the imagination/truth to say they're manufactured in the UK. Interesting that you mention Italy, as they apparently actually manufacture many parts for UK cars

You are being very very disingenuous with your post here.

 

[gordonchas]

Ever since Thatcher and the conservatives focused our economy on the service industry.

Just wrong. It didn't start then, it was the continuation of a trend, and the same thing happened in every major economy.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

why cant we recognise those key skill areas that we have and which continue? high tech industry, media, dare i say it banking, finance and professional services have managed to keep us a top nation. if not these then what is behind our relative success, because no one can say we havent had any.

All well and good but the UK needs to balance it's economy with some good old fashioned making stuff. The benefits of this, and the associated "proper" jobs are wide spead

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Just wrong. It didn't start then, it was the continuation of a trend, and the same thing happened in every major economy.

This is very depressing viewing.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Just wrong. It didn't start then, it was the continuation of a trend, and the same thing happened in every major economy.

That's a bit of a blow to the blame thatch for everything crowd unless of course she caused the decline in global manufacturing which no doubt some are willing to believe.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Seempls. When Maggie and her Cronies decided we didn't need Steel, Coal, Shipbuilding etc. (unionised) but could prosper on banking and commercial earnings (non-unionised)..

Absolutely this. I well remember the blessed Margaret pronouncing that we needed to move from being a manufacturing economy to a service economy.

I have long wondered how we got to the stage where our largest British owned car manufacturer is Morgan, how we can't build our own trains - and that from living in a FORMER railway town (Eastleigh), and being astounded when being in France - St Nazaire - a few years ago when they were building 5 giant cruise ships when we no longer really had a shipbuilding industry.

Other "first world" countries seem to have significant manufacturing capabilities. Why not us?

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

That's a bit of a blow to the blame thatch for everything crowd unless of course she caused the decline in global manufacturing which no doubt some are willing to believe.

I'll stop blaming Thatcher for everything when people on the other side of the political spectrum stop blaming Gordon Brown and the Labour Government for the GLOBAL recession, which they probably did more to lead everyone out of than anyone else.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

Just wrong. It didn't start then, it was the continuation of a trend, and the same thing happened in every major economy.

So that could mean a decline or it could mean a more diverse economy, which isn't reliant on one sector but spread over many, making your Country more able to cope in difficult times as it doesn't rely on one sector which could have a volatile period where demand slumps (so we haven't put all our eggs into one basket)

The decline in percentage in employment could be again due to diversification of the job markets as new sectors are introduced and expand or it could also be affected by automation (robots used to make cars instead of by hand)

You could still get these sorts of figures with your manufacturing sector growing over the same time scale and therefore these charts could be misleading

 

[JC Footy Genius]

I'll stop blaming Thatcher for everything when people on the other side of the political spectrum stop blaming Gordon Brown and the Labour Government for the GLOBAL recession, which they probably did more to lead everyone out of than anyone else.

Bet you half a cheese roll you don't

But seriously that would be equally inaccurate but any government that claimed to have abolished boom and bust and been responsible for bank regulation for more than a decade should not be absolved of any responsibility I'm sure you would agree.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

Absolutely this. I well remember the blessed Margaret pronouncing that we needed to move from being a manufacturing economy to a service economy.

I have long wondered how we got to the stage where our largest British owned car manufacturer is Morgan, how we can't build our own trains - and that from living in a FORMER railway town (Eastleigh), and being astounded when being in France - St Nazaire - a few years ago when they were building 5 giant cruise ships when we no longer really had a shipbuilding industry.

Other "first world" countries seem to have significant manufacturing capabilities. Why not us?

Raw material costs? (more available locally rather than imported in or far cheaper to import them into foreign countries as they don't have to be shipped so far at a cost)
Staffing costs? (cheaper labour keeps the end costs down)
Market forces ? (the global price is almost always cheaper than we can produce items in the country, even with shipping it can still be cheaper. In the past we would have introduced tariffs to increase that price and make our manufactured products cost around the same or even less than these imports but we have a free market now so no tariffs to protect our industry)
Export costs? (making it here and shipping abroad may make it more expensive than locally manufactured items make in or closer to the country we want to export to)
and so on....

 

[El Presidente]

It's no coincidence that since business decisions have to be approved by Sharia Law it's all been downhill.

 

[beorhthelm]

Not true. The UK assembles a lot of cars but it's stretching the imagination/truth to say they're manufactured in the UK. Interesting that you mention Italy, as they apparently actually manufacture many parts for UK cars

You are being very very disingenuous with your post here.

disingenuous? you're making a distinction between make/assemble/manufacture, i was just highlighting an interesting information on this countries car industry. i'm well aware that cars are "assembled", this is still counts as manufacturing. while your beloved Germany may be better at maintaining supply chain within the country, its still imports components made abroad, including UK (brake, lights and cats spring to mind).

 

[The Spanish]

It's no coincidence that since business decisions have to be approved by Sharia Law it's all been downhill.

the gulf states dont have to plough throw decades of nimbyism to build a bleeding runway at one of the worlds major air hubs though

 

[El Presidente]

the gulf states dont have to plough throw decades of nimbyism to build a bleeding runway at one of the worlds major air hubs though

Spot on TS.

 

[The Spanish]

disingenuous? you're making a distinction between make/assemble/manufacture, i was just highlighting an interesting information on this countries car industry. i'm well aware that cars are "assembled", this is still counts as manufacturing. while your beloved Germany may be better at maintaining supply chain within the country, its still imports components made abroad, including UK (brake, lights and cats spring to mind).

plus german industry was helped back on its feet after it had led europe into a disastrous war that played a big part in destroying Britains manufacturing industry. i know its a wind up but how British people can cheerlead German manufacturing as an example of how to do it, when that country was the catalyst for Britain's manufacturing decline, is beyond me.