The FFP smokescreen

[spring hall convert]

I would rather Bloom said "I've spent £100million on the stadium, another £30m is going on the training ground, I've invested in players for a couple of seasons, but for now I am now consolidating and not spending any more".

That I would take happily, and sit back and enjoy.

This constant bullshit about FFP from Barber is just the type of spin that new labour came up with. And it doesn't wash with me.

Does it really matter what the reasoning is though? Unless Bloom is willing to chuck more of his money into it we need to become a financially sustainable club. I know it's boring and not particuarly sexy but it's the reality of the situation.

 

[Springal]

First time I've dared to come on here since Saturday, and I've always been pretty pro-FFP, and saying we should stick with what we have, but the situation with strikers now, is pretty critical that we MUST spend, if we have any intention of having a top-half finish. I don't buy the whole 'we can't expect Bloom to keep spending' etc etc, when we had the highest average attendances in the league last year, we kept getting told our budget was in the bottom half of the table, and record fan spending on beer, food, merchandise etc. Something has to give, as it stands the numbers don't stack up for me, as fans we can't do anymore than we are now, and if the club want to stop this rot for the next 2-3 months, they need to start being creative and sticking their hand in their pocket.

 

[Giraffe]

Does it really matter what the reasoning is though? Unless Bloom is willing to chuck more of his money into it we need to become a financially sustainable club. I know it's boring and not particuarly sexy but it's the reality of the situation.

Yes I think it does.

For me I like honesty and striaght forward talking not spin. The whole FFP is really just a load nonsense to spin the fact that quite rightly Tony Bloom is not willing to pay for losses every single year. We have the biggest crowds in the league and understandably therefore he expects us not to be out of pocket every season. Barber is doing this job and getting us there. That should be enough. Blaming FFP is just spin.

 

[Tony Meolas Loan Spell]

You can also take out insurance against winning trophies AND promotion. The unexpected bonus payments that you have to make. You can insure against them.

 

[glasfryn]

First time I've dared to come on here since Saturday, and I've always been pretty pro-FFP, and saying we should stick with what we have, but the situation with strikers now, is pretty critical that we MUST spend, if we have any intention of having a top-half finish. I don't buy the whole 'we can't expect Bloom to keep spending' etc etc, when we had the highest average attendances in the league last year, we kept getting told our budget was in the bottom half of the table, and record fan spending on beer, food, merchandise etc. Something has to give, as it stands the numbers don't stack up for me, as fans we can't do anymore than we are now, and if the club want to stop this rot for the next 2-3 months, they need to start being creative and sticking their hand in their pocket.

they have never stacked up for me either
and when wifey starts saying something is wrong(she knows football but not particularly the Albion) then I know something in paradise is smelling a little
surely it must be better to find a good C/F and pay him whatever than go on like we are and god forbid suffer relegation and all that goes with that(12k at the Amex next and subsequent seasons) Tony is a gambler and hoping we get a C/F in the next 48 hours might just sooth a few fevered brows...........mine in particular

 

[Goldstone1976]

I'd rather follow a well run Championship side than a Premier League team that's a ticking time bomb.

And my guess is that Tony Bloom feels the same way. Naturally, he'd far rather have a well run PL side than a well run Championship side, but if he had to choose between the two options you pose, I think he'd go for the former every time. If I'm right, it doesn't matter if FFP is a smokescreen or not. He's currently prepared to lose £8m pa to try to get us up. Who knows what he'll be prepared to lose next season - more than likely £5m, next year's FFP limit.

 

[Surf's Up]

If TB wanted to put more money in the simplest way seems to be for one of his companies to pull off a major sponsorship deal with the club, say £5m for the naming rights of the West Stand ..... sorted!

 

[rippleman]

A couple of thoughts on FFP:

1) Whilst the club (well, Barber) continue to use FFP as an excuse for just about anything and everything, so far as I'm aware the challenge against the introduction of FFP in the European Courts is ongoing. It's therefore possible that FFP (in its current incarnation) may never happen.

2) It is quite apparent that many clubs (like Forest) are giving FFP the finger anyway. Clearly their Barbermen have decided that the rewards of EPL football far outweigh the fines proposed under FFP. Surely it is worth the risk of having to pay a fine against the additional income (particularly from TV rights)that EPL clubs enjoyed. With the parachute payments, it is still a "good deal" to ignore FFP fines and "go for it".

I've no doubt that other clubs' attitudes would be different if there was a "no promotion" sanction or really heavy points deductions for breaking FFP but that isn't the case.

Point I'm making is that by following the absolute letter of a scheme that many of our competitors are ignoring, and may possibly not happen, we are no longer on a level playing field. If TB wants to realise his 5 year plan for premiership football at the Amex then further investment in the club is quite clearly required. To imply (as Barber did not so long ago) that if we want the club to invest in the squad we have to eat more pies (ok - I know that wasn't exactly what he said...bit of poetic licence!) is somewhat farcical! I seem to recall that he announced that the transfer budget would be in-line with last year's. So what has happened to it?

 

[Baron Pepperpot]

A couple of thoughts on FFP:

1) Whilst the club (well, Barber) continue to use FFP as an excuse for just about anything and everything, so far as I'm aware the challenge against the introduction of FFP in the European Courts is ongoing. It's therefore possible that FFP (in its current incarnation) may never happen.

2) It is quite apparent that many clubs (like Forest) are giving FFP the finger anyway. Clearly their Barbermen have decided that the rewards of EPL football far outweigh the fines proposed under FFP. Surely it is worth the risk of having to pay a fine against the additional income (particularly from TV rights)that EPL clubs enjoyed. With the parachute payments, it is still a "good deal" to ignore FFP fines and "go for it".

I've no doubt that other clubs' attitudes would be different if there was a "no promotion" sanction or really heavy points deductions for breaking FFP but that isn't the case.

Point I'm making is that by following the absolute letter of a scheme that many of our competitors are ignoring, and may possibly not happen, we are no longer on a level playing field. If TB wants to realise his 5 year plan for premiership football at the Amex then further investment in the club is quite clearly required. To imply (as Barber did not so long ago) that if we want the club to invest in the squad we have to eat more pies (ok - I know that wasn't exactly what he said...bit of poetic licence!) is somewhat farcical! I seem to recall that he announced that the transfer budget would be in-line with last year's. So what has happened to it?

FFP aside, where would this money come from ?

 

[El Presidente]

A couple of thoughts on FFP:

1) Whilst the club (well, Barber) continue to use FFP as an excuse for just about anything and everything, so far as I'm aware the challenge against the introduction of FFP in the European Courts is ongoing. It's therefore possible that FFP (in its current incarnation) may never happen.

The UEFA version of FFP is up against a legal challenge, not the FL version.

 

[El Presidente]

I seem to recall that he announced that the transfer budget would be in-line with last year's. So what has happened to it?

Errr.........it's not all been spent yet?

 

[El Presidente]

Irrespective of FFP, Tony Bloom is subsidising every seat in the Amex to the tune of £15 per match, and he is FFPucked off with it.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Failure to invest in the team and that means right now will mean the newcomers will drift away when yet another increase to prices for next season is announced with more travel tax as well.

said Harry Redknapp to Milan Mandaric....

 

[Publius Ovidius]

FFP aside, where would this money come from ?

Most clubs are run by a board of directors who dip into their pockets to help the club out. We have one owner, however there are other directors/ investors and should the requirement be for extra funds to buy/ loan players then these people should be approached.

It is inconceivable that with the level of wages demanded by premiership/ championship players and transfers expected, can be funded by the paying public, as well as funding the upkeep and daily running costs of a 30k+ stadium and a state of the art training facility. The only way that can happen will be a huge hike in ticket prices in the next seasons.

The problem is it will end up a chicken and egg situation where we need players to move forward, which means we need to be attractive, which means we need to be top half of the championship. If we haven't the money to attract the players, we end up losing crowds and the income drops. It's a fine balance!

 

[spring hall convert]

Irrespective of FFP, Tony Bloom is subsidising every seat in the Amex to the tune of £15 per match, and he is FFPucked off with it.

That's an incredible stat. Thanks.

 

[BensGrandad]

Irrespective of FFP, Tony Bloom is subsidising every seat in the Amex to the tune of £15 per match, and he is FFPucked off with it.

Can you explain how this is happening? Are you saying the price we pay for a seat, one of the most expensive in the Championship should be £15 dearer or is this a knock on from the stadium purchase?

 

[Acker79]

Wasn't there always going to be clubs that test the limits in the first season. If they get away with it more will follow suit and FFP will become a joke of a law (like the one forbidding tapping up). If enough of them are punished/suffer (there's only room for three teams to be promoted, one of them looks likely to be QPR who I believe are not affect by FFP as a relegated club) then expect more to toe the line.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Can you explain how this is happening? Are you saying the price we pay for a seat, one of the most expensive in the Championship should be £15 dearer or is this a knock on from the stadium purchase?

I think he is saying that if we are making a loss of £8m per season that TB is covering currently, this is amounting to £15 per seat in purely attendance terms (I'm assuming he has done a quick 23 games times 24k average crowd divided into £8m which probably comes out around £15 per seat per game....).

 

[spring hall convert]

It is inconceivable that with the level of wages demanded by premiership/ championship players and transfers expected, can be funded by the paying public, as well as funding the upkeep and daily running costs of a 30k+ stadium and a state of the art training facility.

Or a couple of huge clubs go to the wall and the Championship has a collective wake up call about the completely unsustainable nature of their businesses. The difference between us an Forest is that we have an owner who cares about the long term future of the club. Do you reckon Forest's owners will still be bailing them out in 5 years time if they haven't gone up? No, they'll be long gone leaving the fans to clear up the mess.

There are too many championship clubs, spending too much for even a gambler such as TB to have a punt. The odds aren't good for the overspenders.

Non poker players always think poker is about outrageous bluffs and big bets. It's as much about patience and understanding of odds

 

[Acker79]

I think he is saying that if we are making a loss of £8m per season that TB is covering currently, this is amounting to £15 per seat in purely attendance terms (I'm assuming he has done a quick 23 games times 24k average crowd divided into £8m which probably comes out around £15 per seat per game....).

Impossible. That works out at £14.49p. It must be something else.