Protesters scaling the Shard. Hope they fall off.

[surferdave]

You really are an ignorant prat - get you''re facts right before slagging others off

 

[BadFish]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/sep/10/children-electric-cars

http://www.chiff.com/articles/electric-car-killed.htm

 

[vegster]

As women, I expect they cleaned all the windows on the way up ?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

There are way too many reactionaries on this forum these days, with witless knee jerk reactions about everything, but little or no actual knowledge of what they are tediously pontificating about

Extraordinary thread. I agree with the quote above. Except that a larger reason for a chat site is to pontificate about things about which we know little. If the answers were obvious there would be no room for debate. Anyway, Patti Smith live on TV right now. What a gal. I wonder if she drove to the gig?

 

[beorhthelm]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/sep/10/children-electric-cars

http://www.chiff.com/articles/electric-car-killed.htm

appreciate the feedback. someone else posted about the patent encumbrance of NiMH technology. i'm going to watch "Who killed the Electric Car?". whats apparent is theres a single case of a patent/company being blocked, involving one oil company, one car company, and the original inventors. read between the lines. more to the point, those patents held will expire/have expired, so we'll see a wave of NiMH cars soon right? other sources i've read suggest that the problems lie elsewhere: logisitics of charging. if you could solve that you could go with other, better tech, i recall something about bromine fuel cycle that is far more efficient than carbon (and electric currently relies on carbon in the end). theres of course hydrogen that was such a hope a few years ago, fears of mobile H-Bombs were no doubt seeded by oil lobbiest, but again other fundemental technical problems exist, such as creating the hydrogen and materials for the fuel cell catalyst. until we change, accept either fewer cars or more expensive transportation, we'll not be in a position to accept any new tech. then one day, maybe 30, 50 years from now the oil will be gone and we'll be bitching about Hfuel Inc charging too much for Hydrogen and the nasty plant they have down at Newhaven.

 

[eastlondonseagull]

Brave women. Good on them

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/sep/10/children-electric-cars

http://www.chiff.com/articles/electric-car-killed.htm

How does a nation of say 50 million cars produce enough electricity to cope with such a massive increase in electricity needs if everyone switched over?

It's all well and good to propose such ideas, however I've never seen anything which actually says how they propose to provide such huge amounts of electricity.

 

[BadFish]

How does a nation of say 50 million cars produce enough electricity to cope with such a massive increase in electricity needs if everyone switched over?

It's all well and good to propose such ideas, however I've never seen anything which actually says how they propose to provide such huge amounts of electricity.

The new billionaires of the 21st century will be the people who solve the problem of getting our energy direct from the sun.

http://www.ecoworld.com/energy-fuels/how-much-solar-energy-hits-earth.html

 

[teaboy]

How does a nation of say 50 million cars produce enough electricity to cope with such a massive increase in electricity needs if everyone switched over?

It's all well and good to propose such ideas, however I've never seen anything which actually says how they propose to provide such huge amounts of electricity.

In several ways. Firstly changing how people travel. There are far too many journeys made in cars that could be done by foot, bike or public transport. There are far too many journeys made by single-occupancy cars. Change 'car culture' and the energy production problem is vastly reduced. Too many goods vehicles are on the road, and rail or the waterways should be used instead (I'm aware of the current capacity problem, but you build more railways and update current ones). Secondly invest heavily in a range of renewable sources; tidal, wave, wind, solar. By having a range of production methods you reduce reliability on one single source. You can also use waste incinerators to generate power (something that should've been done at Newhaven, but wasn't). Build nuclear power stations (designed now, not in the 1950's).

It won't be cheap, quick and easy, but will work over the long term.

 

[BadFish]

How does a nation of say 50 million cars produce enough electricity to cope with such a massive increase in electricity needs if everyone switched over?

It's all well and good to propose such ideas, however I've never seen anything which actually says how they propose to provide such huge amounts of electricity.

In several ways. Firstly changing how people travel. There are far too many journeys made in cars that could be done by foot, bike or public transport. There are far too many journeys made by single-occupancy cars. Change 'car culture' and the energy production problem is vastly reduced. Too many goods vehicles are on the road, and rail or the waterways should be used instead (I'm aware of the current capacity problem, but you build more railways and update current ones). Secondly invest heavily in a range of renewable sources; tidal, wave, wind, solar. By having a range of production methods you reduce reliability on one single source. You can also use waste incinerators to generate power (something that should've been done at Newhaven, but wasn't). Build nuclear power stations (designed now, not in the 1950's).

It won't be cheap, quick and easy, but will work over the long term.

......and what he said.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

The new billionaires of the 21st century will be the people who solve the problem of getting our energy direct from the sun.

http://www.ecoworld.com/energy-fuels/how-much-solar-energy-hits-earth.html

And then will people moan about them controlling all the power.

 

[Bold Seagull]

The new billionaires of the 21st century will be the people who solve the problem of getting our energy direct from the sun.

http://www.ecoworld.com/energy-fuels/how-much-solar-energy-hits-earth.html

This isn't a technological problem, but political.

The world could get all it's energy from a small area of the sahara if everyone agreed on the infra-structure costs, and signing various treaties. Italy has already agreed a solar farm in north africa and will lay a cable across the med to receive it. There are schemes that use the electricity generated to pump sea water, desalinate the water, then use the fresh water to clean the solar mirrors while the excess can irrigate the surrounding area.

You have to have the political will power though.

 

[BadFish]

And then will people moan about them controlling all the power.

Of course, because they will then have absolute power and we know how corrupting that is. Hopefully it will be less environmentally damaging though.

 

[BadFish]

This isn't a technological problem, but political.

The world could get all it's energy from a small area of the sahara if everyone agreed on the infra-structure costs, and signing various treaties. Italy has already agreed a solar farm in north africa and will lay a cable across the med to receive it. There are schemes that use the electricity generated to pump sea water, desalinate the water, then use the fresh water to clean the solar mirrors while the excess can irrigate the surrounding area.

You have to have the political will power though.

That kind of political cooperation would be fantastic. I personally hold out more hope for technology to find a away in a more regionalised manner.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

In several ways. Firstly changing how people travel. There are far too many journeys made in cars that could be done by foot, bike or public transport. There are far too many journeys made by single-occupancy cars. Change 'car culture' and the energy production problem is vastly reduced. Too many goods vehicles are on the road, and rail or the waterways should be used instead (I'm aware of the current capacity problem, but you build more railways and update current ones). Secondly invest heavily in a range of renewable sources; tidal, wave, wind, solar. By having a range of production methods you reduce reliability on one single source. You can also use waste incinerators to generate power (something that should've been done at Newhaven, but wasn't). Build nuclear power stations (designed now, not in the 1950's).

It won't be cheap, quick and easy, but will work over the long term.

By changing do you mean forcing them too change?

I can't ever see a car culture disappearing. People like the freedom cars provide.

 

[rcf0712]

"Six protesters are attempting to scale the tallest building in western Europe, The Shard.

Greenpeace said it was protesting against Shell's Arctic drilling, which the oil company said was "not new"."


Some of these people are real idiots.

So Shell are drilling in the Arctic? Good. We need more oil. The Arctic is vast and unused. A little bit of drilling is not going to be a problem.

What the **** is wrong you! I don't care whether you approve of Greenpeace protests or drilling in the arctic but to want people to die for having a strong belief and protesting in a non violent way is frankly barbaric - shame on you and anyone who agrees with you. Just chill out.....

 

[BadFish]

By changing do you mean forcing them too change?

I can't ever see a car culture disappearing. People like the freedom cars provide.

Car culture is already changing, many people including myself have made changing to their driving habits. there is more car pooling than there once was, even lanes that cannot be used by people with one person in the car and more people are choosing to walk or cycle instead of driving short distances.

I will grant you it is only a small change but these changes are always gradual. From little things, big things grow and all that.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Trespassing is an act of aggression though.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Car culture is already changing, many people including myself have made changing to their driving habits. there is more car pooling than there once was, even lanes that cannot be used by people with one person in the car and more people are choosing to walk or cycle instead of driving short distances.

I will grant you it is only a small change but these changes are always gradual. From little things, big things grow and all that.

In a nation the size of Australia. The car will always be required.

 

[BadFish]

In a nation the size of Australia. The car will always be required.

yes it will. The car will always be required everywhere. The change we can make is in how it is used.