Vote Tory for a..umm...err..we sort of might have a sort of referendum on Europe.

[Colossal Squid]

There are just TWO European countries happily existing outside the EU and both of them have fairly unique circumstances which allow them to prosper. Norway and Switzerland are among the wealthiest nations on earth, for different reasons, and with fairly small populations they can look after their own using their vast resources.

Every other European nation that's not a member state of the EU wants in.

There is this idea that Britain is too big and important to have to listen to other people but frankly this just isn't true. Despite our incredible history and cultural significance we just aren't THAT powerful and important a nation anymore. We don't have the sound economic footing to fall back on and leaving the EU would be a disaster. There's also the very real possibility that such a referendum spurs on little Englanders who believe leaving the EU means kicking out all the Poles and Bulgarians etc. which then becomes an ugly racial mess.

I don't believe such a referendum will actually go ahead for the reason that most sensible people know it would be an absolute disaster for the UK if we were to leave the EU and unfortunately the general public are largely morons so a vote could see us opt out and sink like a big brown stone.

Of course it isn't perfect BUT what do people actually think we're going to gain from turning our back on the Union?

 

[pastafarian]

Cameron is shitting himself about UKIP. He is no statesman that is for sure.

in all honesty i doubt he is shitting himself about UKIP
but if he is not concerned then he is being very badly advised

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

Of course it isn't perfect BUT what do people actually think we're going to gain from turning our back on the Union?

Another term in office ?

 

[Kumquat]

He's being led, he's not leading.

That's pretty much Miliband's argument too. But he is trying to look like he is leading by this pointless commitment to a referendum. I'm going to check out the odds because I would wager a lot that no referendum will ever take place, a tory win or not and if they do win, the electorate is unlikely to forgive them in a hurry when they back down. The only way out is to hold it and campaign vigorously to stay in based on the renegotiation. But what if, as is likely, the rest of Europe tells them to f*** off on any renegotiation? They are going to look like plums then too. This is just cynical politicking to keep the right wing on board.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

in all honesty i doubt he is shitting himself about UKIP
but if he is not concerned then he is being very badly advised

Well then why all this ? Just set your beliefs out David - and stick with them.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

There are just TWO European countries happily existing outside the EU and both of them have fairly unique circumstances which allow them to prosper. Norway and Switzerland are among the wealthiest nations on earth, for different reasons, and with fairly small populations they can look after their own using their vast resources.

Every other European nation that's not a member state of the EU wants in.

There is this idea that Britain is too big and important to have to listen to other people but frankly this just isn't true. Despite our incredible history and cultural significance we just aren't THAT powerful and important a nation anymore. We don't have the sound economic footing to fall back on and leaving the EU would be a disaster. There's also the very real possibility that such a referendum spurs on little Englanders who believe leaving the EU means kicking out all the Poles and Bulgarians etc. which then becomes an ugly racial mess.

I don't believe such a referendum will actually go ahead for the reason that most sensible people know it would be an absolute disaster for the UK if we were to leave the EU and unfortunately the general public are largely morons so a vote could see us opt out and sink like a big brown stone.

Of course it isn't perfect BUT what do people actually think we're going to gain from turning our back on the Union?

Agree.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

That's pretty much Miliband's argument too. But he is trying to look like he is leading by this pointless commitment to a referendum. I'm going to check out the odds because I would wager a lot that no referendum will ever take place, a tory win or not and if they do win, the electorate is unlikely to forgive them in a hurry when they back down. The only way out is to hold it and campaign vigorously to stay in based on the renegotiation. But what if, as is likely, the rest of Europe tells them to f*** off on any renegotiation? They are going to look like plums then too. This is just cynical politicking to keep the right wing on board.

I agree with this as well. I have a feeling this is the start of the end for Cameron and Osborne. They're up to their necks in this situation with no way out.

 

[daveinprague]

Really do not see the attraction of a one line party like the UKIP, who has a laughable leadership... the good thing for us 'lefties', is that if UKIP achieve anything at all, it will be damage to the tory vote.

 

[pastafarian]

I don't believe such a referendum will actually go ahead for the reason that most sensible people know it would be an absolute disaster for the UK if we were to leave the EU and unfortunately the general public are largely morons

idiot

 

[Norman Potting]

There are just TWO European countries happily existing outside the EU and both of them have fairly unique circumstances which allow them to prosper. Norway and Switzerland are among the wealthiest nations on earth, for different reasons, and with fairly small populations they can look after their own using their vast resources.

Every other European nation that's not a member state of the EU wants in.

There is this idea that Britain is too big and important to have to listen to other people but frankly this just isn't true. Despite our incredible history and cultural significance we just aren't THAT powerful and important a nation anymore. We don't have the sound economic footing to fall back on and leaving the EU would be a disaster. There's also the very real possibility that such a referendum spurs on little Englanders who believe leaving the EU means kicking out all the Poles and Bulgarians etc. which then becomes an ugly racial mess.

I don't believe such a referendum will actually go ahead for the reason that most sensible people know it would be an absolute disaster for the UK if we were to leave the EU and unfortunately the general public are largely morons so a vote could see us opt out and sink like a big brown stone.

Of course it isn't perfect BUT what do people actually think we're going to gain from turning our back on the Union?

Agree x 2. I'm with a Harry Enfield character on this "It is better to be on the train pissing out of the window on the people on the platform than it is to be running along the platform trying to piss through the window into the train". Perhaps Dave could use that as a campaign slogan?

 

[pastafarian]

Really do not see the attraction of a one line party like the UKIP, who has a laughable leadership... the good thing for us 'lefties', is that if UKIP achieve anything at all, it will be damage to the tory vote.

is there any chance david you could consider what is best for the country as opposed to how this will screw the tories

 

[Colossal Squid]

idiot

Thank you for your constructive comments

Agree x 2. I'm with a Harry Enfield character on this "It is better to be on the train pissing out of the window on the people on the platform than it is to be running along the platform trying to piss through the window into the train". Perhaps Dave could use that as a campaign slogan?

That's EXACTLY it!

 

[East Preston Gull]

I cannot imagine the big corporations of Europe will stop trading with us if we leave the soviet state of Europe! The EU is finished, get out now and that will give the cowardly french, Italians and Germans the excuse to leave and blame us..I spend time in these countries and when you ignore the luvvies and state workers of Europe , the real grafters of these countries want the same as us...they want out!!....long live the queen!:thumbup:

 

[daveinprague]

is there any chance david you could consider what is best for the country as opposed to how this will screw the tories

Yes, avoid a racist, bigoted bunch of chancers, like the UKIP.
I dont believe leaving the EU will benefit the UK at all either.

 

[yxee]

The Swiss have dozens of separate individual free trade agreements to make this work. It would take decades for the UK to negotiate similar arrangements.

For me it all comes down to this point. I don't care for political union or some federal pan-European ideology that others seem to have whereby we give money to help build roads in Poland or something. I care about the trade, which is why the EU exists.

But why on earth would it take decades to negotiate similar agreements?

 

[Camicus]

in all honesty i doubt he is shitting himself about UKIP
but if he is not concerned then he is being very badly advised

Hes shiting himself about the 20-30 seats they will lose him at the next election

 

[Seagull over Canaryland]

The economic backdrop in the run up to this potential referendum will be a factor. The UK is currently at risk of losing its AAA financial rating, that is expected to lead to more expensive borrowing which won't exactly help stimulate regeneration. We will end up paying out substantially more servicing the Country's debt and less on inward investment. We will move closer to the predicament that some EC countires are in and could well become more dependent on assistance from the IMF.

Part of the problem is that the coalition is not cutting the deficit as hard and fast as the financial institutions want. Clearly that would be politically difficult but all the time we are tinkering the problem isn't getting better. It doesn't look good for growth and jobs so there financial and political outlook in the run up to a referendum will be very interesting. Especially with the public perception that many jobs and benefits may be benefitting immigrants, and with a significant influx of new eastern European immigrants expected withion 18months. That won't help the public mood over Europe.

Conversly there maybe a reluctant stay 'in' so we can get a few handouts from Brussels but I guess the EEC will want the UK to surrender its rebate in treturn for access to the bailout fund. How ironic. OK there will be lots of rhetoric around the in/out issue but I don't think any political party will find this debate easy because they will have to balance the books. I can forsee the electorate feeling very anti-EEC but also there are so many questions around how we would fare outside Europe?

 

[Titanic]

Agree x 2. I'm with a Harry Enfield character on this "It is better to be on the train pissing out of the window on the people on the platform than it is to be running along the platform trying to piss through the window into the train". Perhaps Dave could use that as a campaign slogan?

Where is this train going? when is it going to arrive and what does it cost to ride on?

 

[pastafarian]

Thank you for your constructive comments

your welcome

if you were wondering why i came to that conclusion it is because i think the voting British public are quite a savvy bunch and since we are talking about people that would vote on such an issue i think you saying the general public are morons on this issue makes you an idiot

 

[Trufflehound]

All those of you saying how well Norway is doing outside the EU obviously haven't reckoned with their inflammable cheese:

BBC News - Norway goat cheese fire closes tunnel