Two wide players vs lopsided midfield

[Joe Punter]

35 games into the season and we have started with two wide players seven times. In another five games we've ended the game with two wide players after substitutions.

Of the seven games where we've started with two wide players we've won two, lost three, and drawn two.

Can two wide players work? I'm guessing we won't see Lua Lua and Noone playing together much now, but if Buckley stays fit and either Lua Lua, Noone, or Vicente are available it's got to be an option.

Brighton 1 - 0 Gillingham
16 Ankergren
03 Greer
05 Dunk
14 Calderon
20 Vincelot
22 Painter
11 Noone
18 Dicker
26 Bridcutt
30 Buckley
09 Barnes

Reading 3 - 0 Brighton
16 Ankergren
03 Greer
05 Dunk
06 El-Abd Booked
27 Taricco
10 Sparrow Booked
17 Harley
25 LuaLua (Noone - 62' )
26 Bridcutt Booked
30 Buckley (Paynter - 62' )
12 Mackail-Smith

Brighton 3 - 0 Southampton
01 Brezovan
03 Greer Dismissed
06 El-Abd
27 Taricco (Hall - 54' )
28 Cook
10 Sparrow Booked
25 LuaLua (Harley - 85' )
26 Bridcutt
30 Buckley
12 Mackail-Smith
35 Forster-Caskey

Brighton 1 - 1 Wrexham
01 Brezovan
14 Calderon
20 Vincelot
31 Hall
34 Sampayo Booked
08 Navarro Booked (Kasim - 63' Booked )
10 Sparrow
25 LuaLua (Agdestein - 53' )
30 Buckley (Rodgers - 63' )
35 Forster-Caskey
09 Barnes

Brighton 1 - 2 Liverpool
16 Ankergren
03 Greer
14 Calderon
20 Vincelot Booked
28 Cook
08 Navarro Booked (Barnes - 78' )
10 Sparrow Booked (LuaLua - 78' )
11 Noone
26 Bridcutt
30 Buckley (Vicente - 60' )
12 Mackail-Smith

Brighton 3 - 3 Leeds
16 Ankergren Booked
03 Greer Booked
05 Dunk
14 Calderon
22 Painter Booked
11 Noone (Vicente - 46' )
18 Dicker Booked
25 LuaLua (Hoskins - 86' )
26 Bridcutt
09 Barnes Booked
12 Mackail-Smith (Vincelot - 90' )

Middlesbrough 1-0 Brighton
16 Ankergren
03 Greer
05 Dunk
20 Vincelot Booked
27 Taricco Booked
36 Jara Booked
10 Sparrow (Buckley - 63' )
11 Noone Booked (Paynter - 74' )
25 LuaLua Booked
26 Bridcutt
12 Mackail-Smith (Barnes - 74' )

Bristol City 0 - 1 Brighton
11 Noone (LuaLua 72)
17 Harley (Buckley 73)

Leicester 1 - 0 Brighton
11 Noone (Buckley - 60' )
17 Harley (LuaLua - 68' Booked )

Watford 1 - 0 Brighton
10 Sparrow (LuaLua - 82' )
11 Noone

Brighton 2 - 1 Coventry City
11 Noone
17 Harley (LuaLua - 78' )

Brighton 1 - 0 Nottingham Forest
11 Noone (Buckley - 76' )
09 Barnes (LuaLua - 55' )

 

[Mr Smggles]

I have always wanted Gus to play a 4-3-3 when going forward and a 4-4-2 when defending.

When attacking
Barnes CMS Buckley
XXXXX XXXXX XXXX
XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX
XXXX


WHen defending
CMS Buckley
Barnes XXXX XXXX XXXX
XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX
XXXX​

I think Barnes is good enough at defending to play the left midfield roll and does well enough up top to warrant a staring place but not sure he could last the whole game, moving from the wing to up top.

 

[ArcticBlue]

Interesting post. To play effectively with two wingers we would need to control and in fact dominate the midfield comfortably. We probably need a top class player in the middle to make this happen on a regular basis. Vicente? Maybe. However Barnes does a great job in the LF position and I think Gus will continue in this way, at least at the start of games.

That's what I reckon anyway.

 

[dac1980]

I would love to see a more rigid 4-4-2 at home with Buckley + either Lua Lua or Nooney giving us the width and help expose the big spaces that are created and take on the full back. With the big pitch we have (as Gus wanted) i would have thought this was his plan. IMO with only 1 out and out winger the opposition aren't so stretched and can pretty much bank on the majority of the attacking play to come down 1 wing, double up and try to attack the other wing.

The striker options would be CMS with probably Vokes but Barnes is still an option, I really like Barnes and credit to him for working hard at his game and fitting into Gus's formation.

Away from home i don't have a problem with the formation we play.

 

[cjwoolven]

Playing with two wingers IS more exciting, but we're winning games the way we're set up now. We're doing well and Gus has it working. Don't fix what isn't broke and all that.

However I'm sure most would like to see two wingers when the going gets tough.

 

[perseus]

Although we can only play on one wing at one time (appears lob-sided) it does not mean you cannot have two wingers (not ideal) because the other winger can tuck inside and be a midfielder. However, if we play Kazenga advanced on the left hand side there is still the i option of Calderon at right back to overlap on the right hand side.

The problem with 4-3-3 v 4-4-2 is the other side has an extra player in the middle of the park. This can be rectified by one of our strikers coming deep or a defender advancing.

Some ways the problem is resolved:

Liverpool 0-0 Tottenham: neither side step it up in the second half | Zonal Marking

Instead of Bale going inside we could have Kazenga going wide, being a winger (lob-sided). Buckley on the right would have to move inside like Kranjcar in the diagram. Well, sort of. It is all more complicated though. Myself, I would sooner have another Albion player taking the corners, Vicente ideally.

Except we do not play like Spurs, we play more Like Liverpool. I envisage we play our system which unlike the diagram, but that means I would have to make my own diagram. And I am too tired for that. You can see if we play two wingers, we are most likely to just have one up front like Liverpool. Then we will start drawing our home games when the opponents park the bus.

No Box-to-Box Midfielders in the diagram. Lucas is out for the season.

Modric just collects, moves a bit and passes the ball. It does not look as he gets in the box at all at either end of the pitch.

 

[perseus]

So we could ask do we have to holding midfielders Navarro and Bridcutt feeding one central midfielder and a striker coming deep, i.e Barnes (drawing out a defender) or going wide. Or do we have just the one holder in midfield.

My preference is to have one plus a box to box midfielder. However, this is not the fashion. Mc Anuff did quite well for Reading though.

In the Liverpool v Spurs diagram, Gerrard drifts all over the place trying to draw Parker out of position. Then its not so easy to stop midfielders running at the defence. If Gerrard or Bale (or Vicente, or Poyet in his day) is left alone, they can do damage especially late on in the game. Best bet is to not lose the ball in the first place so they cannot find Gerrard.

 

[Digweeds Trousers]

once again Perseus old fruit a couple of posts that are staggeringly nonsensical. I'm sure you are a decent chap but everytime you open your mouth those around you apeear to be covered in vomit.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

I was discussing this with the might [MENTION=6886]Bozza[/MENTION] the other day. I think Gus might give 4-4-2 with wingers another go once he's happy that our full-backs are good enough to not require additional defensive support. At the moment, they are our weak link, and as a results the midfielders are having to cover back. Once that's sorted (Reyes and Mattock) and potentially we strengthen our midfeild with the 2 guys from Man City, then Gus will have the confidence in the whole team to play 2 wingers.

 

[perseus]

I was discussing this with the might [MENTION=6886]Bozza[/MENTION] the other day. I think Gus might give 4-4-2 with wingers another go once he's happy that our full-backs are good enough to not require additional defensive support. At the moment, they are our weak link, and as a results the midfielders are having to cover back. Once that's sorted (Reyes and Mattock) and potentially we strengthen our midfeild with the 2 guys from Man City, then Gus will have the confidence in the whole team to play 2 wingers.

Capello is 4-4-2 and Redknapp is 4-3-3 sort of. It is arguable that with 4-3-3 (diamond system) you can get overrun in midfield. The counter argument is that Capello's 4-4-2 is outdated. If both teams play 4-4-2 the game can get turgid as both teams cancel each other out.

I think to play 4-3-3 the central midfielder has to be a total football player of very good quality and don't think the Albion have got a player like that? The box-to-box midfielder is out of fashion now with the passing game.

 

[shaolinpunk]

My favourite midfield 4 of all time is United's in the late 90s, and I think is the most balanced way to be

- - Giggs - - - - Keane - - - - - - Scholes - - - - - - Beckham
(Ball carrier) - (Ball winner) - (Creative midfielder) - (Crosser)

 

[Biscuit]

We change formation depending on the opponent and whether or not we have posession/Are chasing a game, so your stats are lovely and pretty but totalyl useless, sorry.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

We have won 6 of our last seven home games, playing with one winger, and still people clamour for Gus to change the shape.

Why?

 

[perseus]

We have won 6 of our last seven home games, playing with one winger, and still people clamour for Gus to change the shape.

Why?

I am defending the Gus system. I can understand that sometimes we get threatened to be overrun in midfield and Gus brings Navarro on. This is when we are leading. But if it is 1-0 and they pinch a goal back ....

 

[severnside gull]

I would love to see a more rigid 4-4-2 at home with Buckley + either Lua Lua or Nooney giving us the width and help expose the big spaces that are created and take on the full back. With the big pitch we have (as Gus wanted) i would have thought this was his plan. IMO with only 1 out and out winger the opposition aren't so stretched and can pretty much bank on the majority of the attacking play to come down 1 wing, double up and try to attack the other wing.

The striker options would be CMS with probably Vokes but Barnes is still an option, I really like Barnes and credit to him for working hard at his game and fitting into Gus's formation.

Away from home i don't have a problem with the formation we play.

I think against most teams at home this is the way Gus would want to play but we haven't had the players - way too vulnerable at full back and lacking a commanding player in central midield, all of which meant sides at this level simply passing round and through us.

With two Premiership level fullbacks, a fit Vicente, and the promise of a quality midielder if Razak does sign in a couple of weeks time, you might just get to see us play a freer flowing style that uses the width of the Amex to its full.

Brezovan
Jara Greer Dunk Mattock
Buckley Bridcutt Razak Noone
Vokes CMS

subs: Ankergren elAbd KLL Vicente Barnes

 

[severnside gull]

We have won 6 of our last seven home games, playing with one winger, and still people clamour for Gus to change the shape.

Why?

Because we really don't score enough goals to get near to a promotion place.

0-0's can too easily become 0-1's and 1-0's can too easily become 1-1's ....... points dropped because we are not consistent in creating chances let alone taking them. To get into the play-offs we have to be more creative and set up to win games more comprehensively. We have to try to win games comfortably enough to avoid the risk of dropped points and in order to enhance our goal difference which, in the final mix in a very tight league, is likely to be crucial.

 

[perseus]

ees complicated:

Soccer Tactics Books

PS: I have not read any of these books.

 

[Diego Napier]

Because we really don't score enough goals to get near to a promotion place.

0-0's can too easily become 0-1's and 1-0's can too easily become 1-1's ....... points dropped because we are not consistent in creating chances let alone taking them. To get into the play-offs we have to be more creative and set up to win games more comprehensively. We have to try to win games comfortably enough to avoid the risk of dropped points and in order to enhance our goal difference which, in the final mix in a very tight league, is likely to be crucial.

? We're only 7 points off an automatic promotion spot

 

[severnside gull]

? We're only 7 points off an automatic promotion spot

From this point in the difference between doing a Norwich or being another Millwall from last season or a Cardiff is a pretty fine line but it won't be just down to points. Look at our GD and we are already disadvantaged.

I really believe we could get a play-off place but we need to turn 1-1's into 2-1's and 1-0's into 2-0's or better to have a realistic chance.
If you look at the stats we have less attempts on goal than any other side but a relatively high conversion of shots on target to goals. Create more chances and you have to believe we will score more goals and if we do that we could very well be in the mix.

 

[perseus]

From this point in the difference between doing a Norwich or being another Millwall from last season or a Cardiff is a pretty fine line but it won't be just down to points. Look at our GD and we are already disadvantaged.

I really believe we could get a play-off place but we need to turn 1-1's into 2-1's and 1-0's into 2-0's or better to have a realistic chance.
If you look at the stats we have less attempts on goal than any other side but a relatively high conversion of shots on target to goals. Create more chances and you have to believe we will score more goals and if we do that we could very well be in the mix.

I don't take much significance to these stats. A shot when you have little or no chance of scoring is just giving the ball to the opposition.