[Football] Mason Greenwood

[The Clamp]

The audio tape is chilling. And disgusting.

If anyone believe the courts are the final word on whether someone is a decent person, they’re living on the big rock candy mountain.

His career should be done. At the very least. Vile human.

 

[GT49er]

if he we was guilty they could

What happens (or doesn't happen) in a criminal court is not relevant to civil law or employment law. What might make it difficult for Man. Utd. is what might be written on his contract - at the end of the day though, even if it would cost them to tear up his contract, that shouldn't in itself stop them doing it.
That would, of course, then leave him as a free agent, with the chance of a whacking great signing on bonus and good wages somewhere else; presumably United would refer to sell him. Can't see any PL club wanting him though, not even Chelsea, but I expect he'll get a job in a country somewhere where women's rights are not important (no names, no pack drill).

 

[The Clamp]

I agree but I also think the transcript/photos of bruises and social media were a way of crying for help.

Many times, domestic abuse victims believe their abuser, who tells them they love them and it was a one-off. It rarely proves to be the case.
Even when a relationship breaks down, and the abuser moves on, the new victim believes it won't happen with them as they have 'true love'.
I'm sure @The Clamp lamp has heard this many, many times in his work.

Two women a week die from a domestic abuser.

A couple of weekends ago, myself and colleagues were called to a hotel room to work a case where a male had carried out a sustained attack on his girlfriend for “dancing with a black man” in a nightclub.

She didn’t want to press charges. They rarely do. It’s fear based and coercive.

“He’s not normally like this”
“This is the first time it’s happened” (NEVER true)
“I think I startled him”
Etc

Out of the dozens of jobs I’ve attended where attacks have been alleged, only one has ever willingly pressed charges. I’ve met women who have married their abusers out of fear of not doing it. Many who endure their partners doing all sorts of vile things to them because it’ll be worse if they don’t comply.



Picking up on these signs and signals from a victim gets easier the more of them you meet but I can see why to an outsider it might seem ridiculous that a victim will marry, bear the children, or even talk to the abuser.

And yes, as you say, the new girlfriend usually always supports the abuser and even joins in mocking the ex-victim. Even when the partner starts abusing them.

 

[The Clamp]

Double

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

There is a slight misunderstanding here. Civil And employment law work ork on 'balance of probabilities' not 'beyond reasonable doubt' so the test is different for Man U if they choose to terminate the employment. There may also be clauses in the contract to do with bringing the club into disrepute.

Very true and there must be a clause in his contract regarding disrepute.

 

[The Clamp]

If a recording came to light of anyone doing that, we would get sacked form any job. Regardless of contract.
Largely because nobody would want to work with you.

I suspect many of his team mates will refuse to play or train alongside Greenwood snd other teams will refuse to share a pitch with him. I imagine that’s how he’ll get let-go in the end.

 

[A1X]

One thing I will say is that I think the position of the club of "wait until the women come back from the world cup and hear what they have to say" is disgraceful, it smacks of those at the top of the club not wanting to make the decision and instead trying to get as many people as possible to "dip their hands in the blood".

The really concerning thing about this is that by including the female players this will open them up to all sort of abuse from the weirdo and utter shit-for-brains knuckle-draggers of the football supporter world, and they will be having to fend this shit off for years. It gives the impression that those who are supposedly paid the big bucks to take the difficult decisions will simply let someone else with a more public profile take the fall for the decisions they should be prepared to just make, but are seemingly unwilling to do so, allowing them to slink back into the shadows once it's happened and someone else cops the flak from the twats.

Again comparing it to our club but if it were to happen I would hope that Tony Bloom and Paul Barber would be the ones to stand up, make and own the decision one way or another, anything else would feel like an abrogation of duty. Not hide behind the women's team or the like.

 

[jordanseagull]

That’s a different girl who he’s had the sprog with

It isn’t. Harriet Robson, same girl he initially got in trouble over.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

A couple of weekends ago, myself and colleagues were called to a hotel room to work a case where a male had carried out a sustained attack on his girlfriend for “dancing with a black man” in a nightclub.

She didn’t want to press charges. They rarely do. It’s fear based and coercive.

“He’s not normally like this”
“This is the first time it’s happened” (NEVER true)
“I think I startled him”
Etc

Out of the dozens of jobs I’ve attended where attacks have been alleged, only one has ever willingly pressed charges. I’ve met women who have married their abusers out of fear of not doing it. Many who endure their partners doing all sorts of vile things to them because it’ll be worse if they don’t comply.



Picking up on these signs and signals from a victim gets easier the more of them you meet but I can see why to an outsider it might seem ridiculous that a victim will marry, bear the children, or even talk to the abuser.

And yes, as you say, the new girlfriend usually always supports the abuser and even joins in mocking the ex-victim. Even when the partner starts abusing them.

Unfortunately, I have seen this in my own family.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

IMHO Greenwood should be treated like David Goodwillie is in Scotland - those clubs continuing to have anything to do with him should be cancelled by all decent people

 

[The Clamp]

Unfortunately, I have seen this in my own family.

Sorry to hear that. It’s very much more prevalent than most think.

 

[The Clamp]

As far as I know, she’s not his ex. They’re together and now have a child.

He doesn’t give her a choice about when she has sex with him so I doubt he gives her a choice about birth control.
A lot of abusers coerce or force their partners into having children with them because the child can then be used as a threat, a punishment, and as a way to stay in the mother’s life forever.

 

[happypig]

As I posted here: https://www.northstandchat.com/threads/rachel-riley.170212/page-36#post-10785284

I've sat on several DV trials. They are very difficult to prove to the required standard (beyond reasonable doubt) because there are generally only two people involved so it's one person's word against another. There can be corroborating evidence, such as injuries, previous behaviour (although this would need a bad character hearing to be admissible) or, as in this case, audio/video.
What make's DV almost impossible to prove is if the victim withdraws their statement or makes it clear that they are no longer willing to co-operate with the prosecution.
A prosecution collapsing doesn't mean the alleged perpetrator isn't a wife-beating scumbag, just that he cannot be proved to be so.

Where it gets interesting is that a civil case, such as breach of contract, only has to prove "on the balance of probability" and it's entirely possible that the evidence already available would be sufficient to terminate his contract for bringing the club into disrepute.

 

[The Fits]

It's going to absolutely kick of at games. Just cannot see how this is going to work. When there's been this kind of universal hatred for a player following other incidents (Lee Hughes, Ched Evans) those players got absolute pelters but they weren't playing for the biggest club in the world. It will never stop.
Crazy decision from Man U. I'm not going to comment on Greenwood but why the club didn't just slowly and quietly get rid (end of contract) I have no idea.
If United won't act on this I'd like to see opposing supporters committing to a mass exodus if he comes on. Or even when he starts. It's more than football this and a strong message needs to be sent because the game is in danger of really losing its way for good.

 

[mikeyjh]

Amazes me that people reach conclusions in either direction based on the very very limited (none) facts they have at hand. For what it's worth I think Mason Greenwood is probably an awful person but I'll let people who are much closer to the situation judge.

Tangentially, once Rachel Riley has opined, I'm instinctively in the opposite camp as much of what I've heard from her suggest she's also not a great character.

 

[The Clamp]

One thing I’m seeing more and more of in my work is the sense of entitlement in young men.

That audio recording is a prime example;

“I asked politely but you said no, what else am I supposed to do”?

As if access to her body is his right and her consent is not a consideration.

I see more and more cases of inappropriate sexual attention being met with a
“Huh? What’s the problem”? reaction.

It’s worrying. Like a return to the early 1900’s.

And of course the acceptance by the victims of it being an inevitable part of a night out. Which has sadly been the case since time immemorial.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

The problem is that many thousands or maybe millions of people have heard the damning clip on social media and whatever it was, and it was highly unpleasant and reprehensible whatever the court may say, it will linger in people's minds.

They didn’t play the clip, but they had a whole report on it on Newsnight last night (Thursday) where Victoria Derbyshire read out what was said.
I guess the CPS aren’t proceeding because they can’t verify it was him.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

It's going to absolutely kick of at games. Just cannot see how this is going to work. When there's been this kind of universal hatred for a player following other incidents (Lee Hughes, Ched Evans) those players got absolute pelters but they weren't playing for the biggest club in the world. It will never stop.
Crazy decision from Man U. I'm not going to comment on Greenwood but why the club didn't just slowly and quietly get rid (end of contract) I have no idea.

I wonder if, legally, away clubs are actually allowed to bar undesirable players from their private premises, same as they do with spectators?

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

If he was 32 and RUBBISH I imagine a different decision may have been reached.

 

[The Clamp]

Amazes me that people reach conclusions in either direction based on the very very limited (none) facts they have at hand. For what it's worth I think Mason Greenwood is probably an awful person but I'll let people who are much closer to the situation judge.

Tangentially, once Rachel Riley has opined, I'm instinctively in the opposite camp as much of what I've heard from her suggest she's also not a great character.

Have you heard the recording? It’s pretty f***ing conclusive.