[Albion] VAR decision on Estupiñán goal

[El Turi]

 

[Guinness Boy]

They’re really not guesswork. The still image is not the technology used to make the actual decision - it’s just a representation. But, if you did draw the line from the wrong defender as is being suggested, it doesn’t matter how accurate the technology is…

When you get the wrong player and when there’s an admitted margin of error possible for when the ball was kicked versus the still image it’s a guess.

Cricket has umpire’s call precisely because the ball tracking becomes a guess around the finer margins. Same with offsides

 

[A1X]

Worth remembering the VAR ref today is actually the head of VAR at PGMOL.

 

[trueblue]

When you get the wrong player and when there’s an admitted margin of error possible for when the ball was kicked versus the still image it’s a guess.

Cricket has umpire’s call precisely because the ball tracking becomes a guess around the finer margins. Same with offsides

I hate it too but it’s 50 frames per second from several cameras specifically calibrated so that even the camber of the pitch is taken into account. So it’s not guesswork. When they use the correct player(!) it’s precise. Too precise. The issue I think is not the accuracy but whether finding someone’s kneecap offside is really what the law was meant to achieve.

 

[pb21]

When you get the wrong player and when there’s an admitted margin of error possible for when the ball was kicked versus the still image it’s a guess.

Cricket has umpire’s call precisely because the ball tracking becomes a guess around the finer margins. Same with offsides

The system they had in the WC was pretty good, essentially fully automated with just a final human check.

However, that needs decent cameras etc. which is fine for most, but clearly not the likes of palace who seem to have one camera on a crane.

 

[Guinness Boy]

I hate it too but it’s 50 frames per second from several cameras specifically calibrated so that even the camber of the pitch is taken into account. So it’s not guesswork. When they use the correct player(!) it’s precise. Too precise. The issue I think is not the accuracy but whether finding someone’s kneecap offside is really what the law was meant to achieve.

I don’t know what VAR’s trying to achieve full stop. Because, if it’s better and fairer decisions and less controversy it’s failed miserably. And it’s killing fan interaction. No way we all go mental if the flag goes up and no way the Nigels get just as big a celebration when it’s ruled out.

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

I don’t know what VAR’s trying to achieve full stop. Because, if it’s better and fairer decisions and less controversy it’s failed miserably. And it’s killing fan interaction. No way we all go mental if the flag goes up and no way the Nigels get just as big a celebration when it’s ruled out.

Just get rid, sucking the enjoyment out of a goal being scored.

We’ve moved from talking about refereeing controversies, to whether the officials operating it are competent.

It’s achieved next to nothing - absolute rubbish.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I hate it too but it’s 50 frames per second from several cameras specifically calibrated so that even the camber of the pitch is taken into account. So it’s not guesswork. When they use the correct player(!) it’s precise. Too precise. The issue I think is not the accuracy but whether finding someone’s kneecap offside is really what the law was meant to achieve.

It might be 50 frames a second but I saw some examples a few years back where you couldn’t work out the exact frame when ball contact was made. If VAR is used in this scenario then it is guesswork

 

[Dirty Dave]

I've been thinking recently, give me a couple of months as a VAR official each week and I'm genuinely very confident I'd do a better job than the apparent professionals.
I get on field referees have a difficult job and often have to make split second decisions, seeing things just once and at speed. But seeing multiple replays with different speeds, angles and still often getting the very basics wrong is just mind blowing

 

[luge]

I hate it too but it’s 50 frames per second from several cameras specifically calibrated so that even the camber of the pitch is taken into account. So it’s not guesswork. When they use the correct player(!) it’s precise. Too precise. The issue I think is not the accuracy but whether finding someone’s kneecap offside is really what the law was meant to achieve.

I don't buy the calibration. The cameras change each match, and they all have mega zooms. Impossible to know who's on what in an instant.

 

[luge]

The system they had in the WC was pretty good, essentially fully automated with just a final human check.

However, that needs decent cameras etc. which is fine for most, but clearly not the likes of palace who seem to have one camera on a crane.

As much as I love the narrative - cameras are supplied by the various OB companies that broadcast the games - and they change each match.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

As an aside, I wonder if Todd Boehle is fully aware of Estupinan, his repeated brilliance and his price? I hope so.

​

 

[BBassic]

So they've admitted error.

Now what? The dumb f*** will be back doing the job next weekend. We're still out 2 points. There's no accountability.

It's a farce. Bin it.

 

[driller]

 

[Sea Cider]

If the people running VAR are repeatedly admitting that even now, years after implementation, they are making key mistakes that are dramatically affecting the outcome of matches, doesn't this just directly support binning off the whole useless enterprise.

There's is literally nothing that VAR has improved in the game for me.

 

[Ding Dong !]

So that's a goal that should have been given and a red card ( on Fergusson ) not given in our last 3 league games.

 

[GT49er]

Right from the start the PGMOL ballsed it up by the use of 'Clear and obvious' instead of clear and obvious error. They've (more or less) got it right with penalty decisions - ooh, that could have been a pen.....I might have given it.............. but the on-line ref decided it wasn't. Marginally, possibly an error - but clear and obvious? No. Ref's decision stands.
So with off-side - he may or may not be an inch (about 2.4 cms. for younger readers) off-side. Yes, that might be clear and obvious in slow-mo, or on a freeze-frame, but was it a clear and obvious error by the on-field team? No, it wasn't - and who cares about a toe-nail either way anyway? That's not what the off-side rule was invented for anyway; it was to cut out goal-hanging - and it has! Job done - advanced finger-nail not relevant.

 

[CliveWalkerWingWizard]

I believe it was noted when VAR came in that they take the first frame after the ball leaves the foot (the first frame in which there is a gap between the player's foot and the ball). It was framed around the discussion of whether 'playing the ball' means making contact, or when it leaves the foot.

I don't know that either way always offers an advantage to the attacker or the defender because there's so much variance - delay it a fraction and the defender stepping up (away from goal) is a bit further awat that before, or the defender tracking back may had pulled level with the attacker who stuttered to stay in line with the ball. Call it with the first frame the foot touches the ball, and the reverse applies.

I can see this can benefit either team, but it still a margin of error, depending on angle how do you discern when the ball has left the foot ? I take it that this is decided by a human. How many frames are there per second ? The errors accumulate and it makes no sense to call offside by cm. On top of this we clearly have fcukwits in charge of the lines.

 

[Triggaaar]

The image posted on MOTD Twitter suggests to me that he would have been onside with lines from the correct defender.

I'm not so sure.

How can they get away with impacting the integrity of the competition with no repercussions?

I agree. Mess up like that and you should be out.

 

[BNthree]

VAR wrongly rules out Brighton goal in Palace draw

Brighton have a goal incorrectly ruled out for offside after a human error by the VAR operator in their draw at Crystal Palace.

www.bbc.co.uk