What do you mean by staffing for beds? Laundry staff? Mattress manufacturers?
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[Misc] How can the NHS survive in its current form ?
- Thread starter Binney on acid
- Start date
It isn't just about the funding. As explained by several of us earlier.
king Wombat
Active member
you don't actually know that though do you. The % of GDP funding to the NHS has been cut by the tory party. Under the Labour admin 97-2010 it was consistently higher.
In 2010, the NHS had it's highest satisfaction ratings ever. Now its' probably the lowest it's ever been. The Lansley reforms done around 2012 were dreadful and are have made it far worse.
Our ratio of beds/Doctors/Nurses to patients is far lower than many other similar sized countries.
The Tory party decimated social care, and now surprise surprise we're finding that it's causing knock on issues with the NHS.
In the run up to this winter, various high up NHS chiefs were saying they weren't going to be able to cope with the Winter rush . The tory party were too busy running their own internal battles to actually do anything about it rather than chuck out a few vague platitudes.
It definitely does need more money, get the workforce back on side and as an aid to boost recruitment.
It also needs a cross party consensus to remove the political element from it and put in a long time plan to make it function properly.
JamesAndTheGiantHead
Well-known member
I think it’ll go the way of social care; means-tested contributions towards certain operations/procedures if you have a certain amount of savings.
KZNSeagull
Well-known member
Anyone with private medical insurance should be compelled to use that rather than the NHS where possible.
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
Where's the data / info. coming for that?
I know we have one of the lowest number of hospital beds per 1000 people compared to EU countries, currently at around 2.7.
fly high
Well-known member
Think you find most people do, shorter waiting times.
Rdodge30
Well-known member
- Dec 30, 2022
- 442
Not highest ever- highest since ratings began in 1983 - second highest NHS satisfaction ratings 2016 (65%)
Well, there is a danger of this thread becoming as nuanced and convoluted as the tories want to make it.
The % share of public service spending will of course go up if the amount of public service spending falls elsewhere. Public service spending may include such things as legal aid (cut!) the police and armed forces if you chose to include them (and I think you must).
The bottom line is the NHS can be given more funds, with or without reform of absurd practices (as discussed), or flogged off. Or left to get worse, which is evidently what the tories want for it (with the occasional 'boost' here or there to make it look like they care, in the hope and expectation that the great mass of working class tory voters won't notice they have been f***ed over again).
link to your data, please.
Nobby Cybergoat
Well-known member
- Jul 19, 2021
- 7,076
The NHS is the most wonderful thing about this country.
But it and every single public service has been run into the ground by the tories.
To fix the mess will take about a decade and require well above inflation spending on wages, recruiting, new equipment and more buildings.
This will require a significant tax rise. But it will be the best money we can possibly spend as a nation.
But it and every single public service has been run into the ground by the tories.
To fix the mess will take about a decade and require well above inflation spending on wages, recruiting, new equipment and more buildings.
This will require a significant tax rise. But it will be the best money we can possibly spend as a nation.
happypig
Staring at the rude boys
A Labour/Liberal coalition is the most likely way to get PR, which is the beat way of insuring that there's never another Tory landslide (or Labour for that matter) and keeping those bastards away from anything of value is the most important thing.
I'd say that every member of the House of Commons and House of Lords and their families should be prohibited from using private healthcare (and private schools for that matter).
Having said that, I'm a pragmatic old trot and not many share my views.
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 35,329
"Nurse to hospital beds" is the given metric. though aware not all "beds" are equal between countries, its interesting nonetheless.
Rdodge30
Well-known member
- Dec 30, 2022
- 442
Since 1983, NatCen Social Research’s British Social Attitudes (BSA) survey has asked members of the public about their views on, and feelings towards, the NHS and health and care issues generally. Since 2011, The King's Fund has reported on its findings.
Overall public satisfaction with the NHS increased to 65 per cent in 2014 – the second highest level since the British Social Attitudes survey began in 1983. Dissatisfaction with the service fell to an all-time low of 15 per cent.
I suppose that my feelings on the matter are that all too often the finger is pointed at “The current Government” whether it’s now or back in 2010 or 1978 the same problems are highlighted. My view is Healthcare needs to be means tested and a hybrid of free for those that can’t afford it and insurance for those that can, more than that I cannot say. I don’t believe it is a political party problem as such, simply an outdated system which is impossible for any government to fund adequately
dejavuatbtn
Well-known member
Like everything else, the NHS has failed to prioritise its services correctly and failed to use its resources to best effect. Just because modern science makes treatments available it doesn’t mean they are performed at the expense of day to day stuff. With an aging population they are on a hiding to nothing.
If we expect them to cover more and more then we have to bite the bullet and cough up more money.
Personally, I don’t think it will ever recover to what it was. It’s just not affordable any more.
If we expect them to cover more and more then we have to bite the bullet and cough up more money.
Personally, I don’t think it will ever recover to what it was. It’s just not affordable any more.
The link is to data on the ratio of number of nurses to number of hospital beds. You realize it would be three times the value in Germany if there are three times more beds in Germany? Could perhaps the main reason for the long waiting lists in the UK and early discharge times be shortage of beds, due to repeated tory ward closures?
The data you link is for 2009-2019, too. This doesn't include the recent complete tits up situation we now find ourselves in.
Oh, and it is "The ratio of the number of professional and associate professional nurses to the number of hospital beds". Associate professional? Like Stalybridge Celtic? This would include bed pan emptiers and arse-wipers, wouldn't it.
Elsewhere on the data source to which you link, in the same time window we are 18th in the list of health spending per capita https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/rankings/Health_spending_per_capita/
and 19th in the list of health spending as % of GDP, and 32nd in the list of life expectancy (that is a f***ing disgrace, by the way - I wonder if it has any link to health and education?), but pleasingly (perhaps) we are 39th in the list of % of GDP spend on the military. As I noted elsewhere, as the spend on military falls the amount of public spending on other things such as health, measured as a % of total public spending, increases. Just like the amount of tea I drink increases, when expressed as a % of everything I drink, during 'dry January'. Even though I drink exactly three cups every day, as I always do.
I like a bit of research, me.
Apart from that - yes, we have the best health care in the world, all heading in the right direction with more and more and better and better, and critics of the tories should jolly well shut up.
KZNSeagull
Well-known member
At the moment maybe, but often when something is free and available people will use it regardless.
I asked myself: What has 2014 got to do with today? How was the question worded? How was the 65% calculated?
I have now done a little research and your statements appear to be somewhat out of data. Here from the BMJ: doi: https://doi.org/10.1136/bmj.o942
"The results of the latest British Social Attitudes (BSA) Survey of satisfaction with the NHS and its services make grim reading for general practice.1 In 2021, satisfaction with GPs fell an unprecedented 30 percentage points to its lowest ever level of 38 per cent.2 This is a shocking fall: from the survey’s inception in 1983 until 2018, general practice had held the top spot over all other NHS services in every year, even if by 2018 satisfaction had already fallen from its last peak of 80% in 2009.
What’s driving this drop? It will probably be no surprise that the main reason for dissatisfaction with the NHS expressed by participants in the survey was the difficulty in getting appointments. The fall in satisfaction is not due to the quality of care received, it’s getting access to that care in the first place.
However, let’s be clear, this is not a problem caused by covid-19, even though it has been exacerbated by it. Activity has been rising and is higher than ever before, but year-on-year demand growth has outstripped available capacity. Longer term drivers of rising demand—a growing population with many experiencing long term conditions—have been magnified by covid-19 as people stayed away from the service at the beginning of the pandemic, but are now presenting with needs that must be addressed." and so on
Since the May/Johnson (and subsequent pygmy) regimen, things have been going downhill alarmingly it would seem.
As I have discovered, only a tiny part of the story.
Anyway my ratio of dinner to hunger has fallen alarmingly and a remedy is necessary
- Oct 12, 2022
- 1,882
To my mind it’s vital to remember that it’s only since the modern Conservative Party has been in power that the service has been decimated.
A competent management team can absolutely turn the ship around, don’t write the NHS off for a second. We won’t get improvement while the Conservative Party is in power however, there are far too many ideological purists there who want it damaged beyond repair. They are actively trying to bring us to this point of questioning the service’s existence.
A competent management team can absolutely turn the ship around, don’t write the NHS off for a second. We won’t get improvement while the Conservative Party is in power however, there are far too many ideological purists there who want it damaged beyond repair. They are actively trying to bring us to this point of questioning the service’s existence.