[Misc] Will the Unions bring everyone to their knees?

[Jolly Red Giant]

My experience of trade unions and trade union leaders is exactly the opposite of your own. Trade Union officers ( I.e employees) and senior people are normally eminently sensible, approachable and enormously reasonable people. Mick Lynch of the RMT has in fact drawn grudging praise from right wing press and pundits for the way he has dealt with interviews and debunked the rubbish that some people have attempted to tar him with.

It is militant trade union members who are more likely to be wanting to put forward the concept of class war and any loony left things that people would want to accuse the unions of.

I write as a retired Trade Unionist who actually resigned from Len McCluskey’s union because of his repeated attempts to be what I saw as a kingmaker, espousing the causes of firstly Ed Miliband, who in my judgement was OK but it should have been his brother, and then more disastrously Jeremy Corbyn. If McCluskey had stuck to being a Trade Union leader…………

Mick Lynch is far more left wing than McCluskey - and Mick Lynch has repeatedly being pointting out the fact that profits are soaring at the expense of workers and public services.

As for your nonsense about 'class war' and 'loony left' - the people who have declared class war are the Tories (and in this instance - the rail companies). Workers did not cause the cost of living crisis - but while profits soar (profits for BP have doubled to something like £15billion in the last six months), workers are being forced to take strike action so that they can try and - not increase - but maintain their standards of living.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Does it concern you at all that what 'you believe' runs entirely consistent with the narrative presented by the right wing press?

I note that Harry has dissected your beliefs further to highlight the inaccuracies and poor logic.

My advice would be to read a little more widely in this area and consider the sources of what you believe.

You are complaining that no one is agreeing with your opening statement on this issue. Maybe this could tell you that the opposing point of view has done validity?

It has also been noted by a few that this thread has caused them to find out more about the situation. They have then find themselves more in support of the Union.

Maybe this should tell you something?

Sent from my M2010J19CG using Tapatalk

I am reluctant to say this but this is default for so many of us:

1. You are personally doing OK
2. So what you do and believe must be correct
3. Other people with a different view must be wrong.

Er....
That's it.
Not very nice, even if you have (my sort of) perspective challenges.

People won't ever learn if they aren't prepared to accept they may be wrong and, listen, look, and learn.

I'm 64 and on the 'spectrum'. I have had to let go and listen. I'm not god. My 'feelings' are meaningless, no matter what my brainstem tells me. Talk to the other guys and listen. That's all I can recommend. Much of what we hold to be true, isn't. Time to expose your frailty, [MENTION=2719]Mouldy Boots[/MENTION]

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Mick Lynch is far more left wing than McCluskey - and Mick Lynch has repeatedly being pointting out the fact that profits are soaring at the expense of workers and public services.

As for your nonsense about 'class war' and 'loony left' - the people who have declared class war are the Tories (and in this instance - the rail companies). Workers did not cause the cost of living crisis - but while profits soar (profits for BP have doubled to something like £15billion in the last six months), workers are being forced to take strike action so that they can try and - not increase - but maintain their standards of living.

Nonsense about “class war” and “loony left”? I was talking about my own experience. I wasn’t aware you had shared those experiences with me. My main point there was to establish mainstream Trade Union members as not being extreme. Whether Mick Lynch is to the left or to the right of McCluskey is irrelevant to that.

I do agree, though, that the Tories are deliberately picking fights with Trade Unions or being unsympathetic to them. My pet theory is that Johnson is looking at Thatcher’s record of the Falklands War and the Miners’ Strike and thinking if it’s good enough for her……. But it’s someone else’s war, which could backfire on him because of the amount of money he’s pledging to it which many will think could be better spent tackling poverty at home, and while plenty of people in Thatcher’s day would have perceived the miners as too powerful, people seem to have more sympathy with the Unions who are taking or threatening action.

 

[BadFish]

I am reluctant to say this but this is default for so many of us:

1. You are personally doing OK
2. So what you do and believe must be correct
3. Other people with a different view must be wrong.

Er....
That's it.
Not very nice, even if you have (my sort of) perspective challenges.

People won't ever learn if they aren't prepared to accept they may be wrong and, listen, look, and learn.

I'm 64 and on the 'spectrum'. I have had to let go and listen. I'm not god. My 'feelings' are meaningless, no matter what my brainstem tells me. Talk to the other guys and listen. That's all I can recommend. Much of what we hold to be true, isn't. Time to expose your frailty, [MENTION=2719]Mouldy Boots[/MENTION]

I agree many factors make up our world view and it is incredibly difficult to break that programming.

As an aside I am considering talking to someone about an autism diagnosis for myself. Studying my post-grad in Autism Studies has opened my eyes to some things throughout my life.

 

[beorhthelm]

lighter tone from RMT than the usual rhetoric, they're been in negotiations all week. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62009982
means there no pre-conditions to talks. no further strikes announed yet.

 

[Machiavelli]

lighter tone from RMT than the usual rhetoric, they're been in negotiations all week. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62009982
means there no pre-conditions to talks. no further strikes announed yet.

Echoed by the employers if you heard the interview on the Today programme this morning. I doubt you'll get a lighter tone from this government though.
Worth adding that Zahawi has written an open letter to Sunak requesting 9% increase for new teachers, and 5% for their more experienced colleagues.

 

[Deleted member 2719]

I am reluctant to say this but this is default for so many of us:

1. You are personally doing OK
2. So what you do and believe must be correct
3. Other people with a different view must be wrong.

Er....
That's it.
Not very nice, even if you have (my sort of) perspective challenges.

People won't ever learn if they aren't prepared to accept they may be wrong and, listen, look, and learn.

I'm 64 and on the 'spectrum'. I have had to let go and listen. I'm not god. My 'feelings' are meaningless, no matter what my brainstem tells me. Talk to the other guys and listen. That's all I can recommend. Much of what we hold to be true, isn't. Time to expose your frailty, [MENTION=2719]Mouldy Boots[/MENTION]

Hazza, I am well aware of my frailties, and also well aware of my strengths.
I have made this extremely public, so nothing to hide about confronting stuff. Many people would not have done this and still don't face up to it as you say.
But this thread hasn't changed my view on unions and those that drive them.
What is concerning is how others are not able to accept that I am currently more than happy in my views on them.
This may change over time, but as we stand of today.
Mick and the union leaders around the UK are screwing us all, as we stand vulnerable as a country.
That is just unforgivable in my eyes.

And that's it in a nut shell.

 

[Ooh it’s a corner]

Hazza, I am well aware of my frailties, and also well aware of my strengths.
I have made this extremely public, so nothing to hide about confronting stuff. Many people would not have done this and still don't face up to it as you say.
But this thread hasn't changed my view on unions and those that drive them.
What is concerning is how others are not able to accept that I am currently more than happy in my views on them.
This may change over time, but as we stand of today.
Mick and the union leaders around the UK are screwing us all, as we stand vulnerable as a country.
That is just unforgivable in my eyes.

And that's it in a nut shell.

Everyone is entitled to their view.

I particularly disagree with your penultimate sentence. It is definitely not the unions who are screwing us all in the UK - it is the appalling, self-centred PM and his vacuous, selfish government who couldn’t care less about ordinary people.

The thread is going round in circles because views are unequivocal for most people

 

[rogersix]

Hazza, I am well aware of my frailties, and also well aware of my strengths.
I have made this extremely public, so nothing to hide about confronting stuff. Many people would not have done this and still don't face up to it as you say.
But this thread hasn't changed my view on unions and those that drive them.
What is concerning is how others are not able to accept that I am currently more than happy in my views on them.
This may change over time, but as we stand of today.
Mick and the union leaders around the UK are screwing us all, as we stand vulnerable as a country.
That is just unforgivable in my eyes.

And that's it in a nut shell.

johnson is doing the screwing, not the unions. the rmt are levelling up, whereas bungle**** is the worst leader in our once great nations long history, voting for him is unforgivable in my eyes

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I am reluctant to say this but this is default for so many of us:

1. You are personally doing OK
2. So what you do and believe must be correct
3. Other people with a different view must be wrong.

Er....
That's it.
Not very nice, even if you have (my sort of) perspective challenges.

People won't ever learn if they aren't prepared to accept they may be wrong and, listen, look, and learn.

I'm 64 and on the 'spectrum'. I have had to let go and listen. I'm not god. My 'feelings' are meaningless, no matter what my brainstem tells me. Talk to the other guys and listen. That's all I can recommend. Much of what we hold to be true, isn't. Time to expose your frailty, [MENTION=2719]Mouldy Boots[/MENTION]

There isn’t a definitive answer though. I have seen nothing on this thread or anywhere else that would make me support this strike. Doesn’t make me right or wrong. I am reasonably intelligent and just haven’t seen these facts that make you think the debate is settled. Where my view differs from Mouldy is that I can see a role for unions in helping individuals in their dealings with employers, contracts etc. Not what this rail union is doing right now though and that is in part because I think workers will pay for it at a later date.

 

[Stat Brother]

Hazza, I am well aware of my frailties, and also well aware of my strengths.
I have made this extremely public, so nothing to hide about confronting stuff. Many people would not have done this and still don't face up to it as you say.
But this thread hasn't changed my view on unions and those that drive them.
What is concerning is how others are not able to accept that I am currently more than happy in my views on them.
This may change over time, but as we stand of today.
Mick and the union leaders around the UK are screwing us all, as we stand vulnerable as a country.
That is just unforgivable in my eyes.

And that's it in a nut shell.

Why do you think "we stand vulnerable as a country"?

 

[Deleted member 2719]

Everyone is entitled to their view.

I particularly disagree with your penultimate sentence. It is definitely not the unions who are screwing us all in the UK - it is the appalling, self-centred PM and his vacuous, selfish government who couldn’t care less about ordinary people.

The thread is going round in circles because views are unequivocal for most people

Why do you think "we stand vulnerable as a country"?

Why do you feel we don't

 

[Stat Brother]

Why do you feel we don't

What a very odd reply.


You wrote:-
As we stand vulnerable as a country


I replied
Why do you think "we stand vulnerable as a country"?

 

[rogersix]

Why do you feel we don't

soon the majority will see what a total omnishambles brexit is, and so all the associated politicians will be swept asunder as we retake our rightful position, as winston churchill wished, at the heart of the european union

 

[Stat Brother]

soon the majority will see what a total omnishamles brexit is, and so all the associated politicians will be swept asunder as we retake our rightful position, as winston churchill wished, at the heart of the european union

I'll hazard a guess those able to fight through the airports will rather regret it when they see their next phone bill.


They didn't mention roaming charges on the side of the bus.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

soon the majority will see what a total omnishambles brexit is, and so all the associated politicians will be swept asunder as we retake our rightful position, as winston churchill wished, at the heart of the european union

Bit random. Are you trying to get the thread moved ?

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Hazza, I am well aware of my frailties, and also well aware of my strengths.
I have made this extremely public, so nothing to hide about confronting stuff. Many people would not have done this and still don't face up to it as you say.
But this thread hasn't changed my view on unions and those that drive them.
What is concerning is how others are not able to accept that I am currently more than happy in my views on them.
This may change over time, but as we stand of today.
Mick and the union leaders around the UK are screwing us all, as we stand vulnerable as a country.
That is just unforgivable in my eyes.

And that's it in a nut shell.

If we stand vulnerable as a country, that is absolutely totally the fault of our government, which has created the conditions where so many people are really suffering purely because of the cost of living crisis.

People have kept things going, faced danger through the darkest days of COVID, taken pay cuts and now basically just can not afford to live. What are they supposed to do!

 

[Is it PotG?]

I'll hazard a guess those able to fight through the airports will rather regret it when they see their next phone bill.


They didn't mention roaming charges on the side of the bus.

Why travel, Labour will give us all free wi-fi?

 

[rogersix]

Bit random. Are you trying to get the thread moved ?

we shall be invulnerable whilst nestling in the european bosom

 

[Deleted member 2719]

What a very odd reply.


You wrote:-
As we stand vulnerable as a country


I replied
Why do you think "we stand vulnerable as a country"?

I thought an odd reply to an obvious statement was fair enough.
Perhaps you can say why our country isn't vulnerable?