[Politics] Should England go it alone?

[Seasider78]

Unlike Brexit it would need to be made clear to the electorate the real consequences of leaving. My view is one day in the future Scotland will get independence but cannot help but think Sturgeon has grossly misjudged the timing of relaunching this debate. People are living through a period of major uncertainty following Brexit, Covid and now cost of living crisis and can imagine most will not want to vote leave with the risk of further instability at this time.

Another stay result would be catastrophic for the ambition to leave as would put the chance of any further debate way into the future. Timing just feels wrong on this for any chance of a leave vote

 

[Bakero]

I would be very sad to see them go.

I can't see any justification for not letting them have another vote as the last one was held when we were in the EU and now we are not.

Although....

We can ask ourselves "What would Putin want ?" If, like me, you are convinced Brexit was a Putin Hybrid Warfare operation against the UK, then why give him a further victory ? There would be dancing in the corridors of the Kremlin if the UK breaks up. The UK off the UN Security Council, RumpUK much diminished.

This is so tricky.

I think, on balance, they need to have a vote. And we just need to "cross our fingers" they don't give Putin another victory.

Very true. Dugin's Foundations of Geopolitics specifically highlighted the Russian the desirability of encouraging "separatist tendencies" in Scotland as well as Wales.


However, the desire of Scottish citizens to go it alone is totally understandable in my opinion. Sad as I would be to see the break up of the UK, another referendum is inevitable. Requiring over 60%, as someone mentioned above, might be a sensible move.

 

[nicko31]

I would be very sad to see them go.

I can't see any justification for not letting them have another vote as the last one was held when we were in the EU and now we are not.

Although....

We can ask ourselves "What would Putin want ?" If, like me, you are convinced Brexit was a Putin Hybrid Warfare operation against the UK, then why give him a further victory ? There would be dancing in the corridors of the Kremlin if the UK breaks up. The UK off the UN Security Council, RumpUK much diminished.

This is so tricky.

I think, on balance, they need to have a vote. And we just need to "cross our fingers" they don't give Putin another victory.

Oh, and we cannot have a vote with someone as toxic and hated in Scotland as Johnson at the UK helm. That would distort the outcome in a bad way.

Get Rid of Johnson before any vote.

Johnson won't give them a vote because he knows he is hated, all the time we have him its peak Sturgeon

The best way to shoot the SNP goose is to give the UK a more representative democracy, instead we have a winners take all approach where the ruling executive has huge unchallenged power.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Unlike Brexit it would need to be made clear to the electorate the real consequences of leaving. My view is one day in the future Scotland will get independence but cannot help but think Sturgeon has grossly misjudged the timing of relaunching this debate. People are living through a period of major uncertainty following Brexit, Covid and now cost of living crisis and can imagine most will not want to vote leave with the risk of further instability at this time.

Another stay result would be catastrophic for the ambition to leave as would put the chance of any further debate way into the future. Timing just feels wrong on this for any chance of a leave vote

I feel the opposite i.e. given the absolute mess the UK is in, the timing is perfect.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

How can England go it alone if Scotland get independence? There is Wales and Northern Ireland.

For one thing, it will no longer be called United Kingdom. All that expense to change number plates from GB to UK, and the UK is falling apart.

 

[Bold Seagull]

How can England go it alone if Scotland get independence? There is Wales and Northern Ireland.

For one thing, it will no longer be called United Kingdom. All that expense to change number plates from GB to UK, and the UK is falling apart.

If Scotland then rejoined the EU independently we'd have more borders, more trade restrictions. It's all just fantastic.

 

[Simster]

simple them and us, not sure anything can address that. they have their own government with powers over everything except foreign policy, defense and borders/immigration. however every problem is blamed on "Westminster", though have not improved any social issue, with a number of their own special issues. independence wont solve anything except scratch an itch.

It's clearly not a "simple them and us" issue at all. If it was that simple, Scottish nationalism would not be the issue it is today. I don't recall half of Scotland wanting independence when I was growing up in the 70s and 80s.

And perhaps you should give Holyrood a ring and tell them they're still in the EU according to the wishes of two thirds of their citizens seeing as you seem to think they can make their own decisions. And you're ignoring the fact that they don't have powers over how to tax either - or at least only some of them.

If they were independent, there would no blaming on Westminster at all.

If Scotland then rejoined the EU independently we'd have more borders, more trade restrictions. It's all just fantastic.

It is debatable whether Spain in particular would let them join, or not for a considerable period of time.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

If Scotland then rejoined the EU independently we'd have more borders, more trade restrictions. It's all just fantastic.

Yes, customs on Hadrians Wall and 90 days restriction applies. All good fun.

 

[Titanic]

If they choose to go, that's fine by me.

It would be particularly messy if they tried to join the EU, but again, that is their choice.

I tend to think that democracy works best in smaller units, so I have no problem with being from Sussex and England.

 

[beorhthelm]

Johnson won't give them a vote because he knows he is hated, all the time we have him its peak Sturgeon

The best way to shoot the SNP goose is to give the UK a more representative democracy, instead we have a winners take all approach where the ruling executive has huge unchallenged power.

SNP is considerably over represented for their population, about 7.4% of seats for 4% of the vote. thats is not their complaint.

 

[nicko31]

How can England go it alone if Scotland get independence? There is Wales and Northern Ireland.

For one thing, it will no longer be called United Kingdom. All that expense to change number plates from GB to UK, and the UK is falling apart.

The irony is this the country that has used GB on its country ID for decades only changed it to UK when they put a customs border in the Irish sea. It a classic example of just how ridiculous this cabal are...

 

[beorhthelm]

It's clearly not a "simple them and us" issue at all. If it was that simple, Scottish nationalism would not be the issue it is today. I don't recall half of Scotland wanting independence when I was growing up in the 70s and 80s.[...]

fair enough. so what are the issues that have driven the upsurge in nationalism since the 80's? this occured well before Brexit, 45% in favour back in 2014.

they have more funding per capita, control of policy and executive agency in health, education, policing and law (own legal system), social services, housing, transport, environment, agriculture and local government, etc. what will independence enable?

 

[Originunknown]

I thought this thread was on sacking Southgate and going to the WC without a manager.

 

[A1X]

So the question is of Scottish Independence and whether England should go it alone.

Where do Wales & Northern Ireland fit into all this, exactly?

As for whether England should go it alone, hell no. I am English and I wouldn't trust us as far as I could throw us.

 

[nicko31]

SNP is considerably over represented for their population, about 7.4% of seats for 4% of the vote. thats is not their complaint.

But unlikely to have any real power in Westminister. The Tories are over represented also well, this command them an 80 seat majority with just over 40% vote share

To be honest if the Scots really want rid of the Tories they should vote Labour, if they do win again in 2024 it will be thanks to the SNP vote

 

[lawros left foot]

If the question was ‘Should Sussex go it alone’ it would be a resounding YES, from me.

Reinstate the ancient kingdom of the South Saxons, and do away with this East Sussex, West Sussex,nonsense.

 

[studio150]

Given Johnson's desire to override the Brexit deal on the Northern Ireland protocol, there will within a very short space of time be a united Ireland, with Scotland following.
So as well as going down in history as the worst PM, Johnson will forever be remembered as the person who broke the Union up.

I would expect that by 2030 it will either be England and Wales or just England depending on what way the Welsh want to go.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

An independent Scotland would take years to join the EU.

 

[Titanic]

How can England go it alone if Scotland get independence? There is Wales and Northern Ireland.

For one thing, it will no longer be called United Kingdom. All that expense to change number plates from GB to UK, and the UK is falling apart.

Wales has a population similar to the West Midlands, and Northern Ireland is clearly destined to become part of Ireland. England it is.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Wales has a population similar to the West Midlands, and Northern Ireland is clearly destined to become part of Ireland. England it is.

I am glad I have one foot in the grave, to be honest. I hate what has happened to this country in the last 12 years. I feel for my children and grandchildren.